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This entire discussion reveals a tangible fear of Christ's humanity.

And in doing so, the Trinity is diminished and a human being, Mary, is elevated.

"I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them." -- Isaiah 48:5

I'm glad I was on this thread. I wouldn't have believed it if someone had told me.

"This entire discussion reveals a tangible fear of Christ's humanity."
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Amen!

Our Lord and Saviour could have come as the emporer of Rome if he wanted. Instead he came to us through a humble, poor, peasant woman. He grew up in a rural, poor, backwater of the Roman Empire and he transformed us and the world.

The truth is a million times more powerful than fairy tales.

It reveals so much more than that, all of which I gained a sense of way too early on. This need of theirs to pristinate Mary, to pristinate her hymen is at its core, that which is the reason for their pederasty scandal, for their incredible propensity for cruelty, as I and many other catholic kids experienced, most of which stems from their perversion of the sexual impulse in man.

I know you're a fan of Augustine, Dr. E. I'm not really. He was a bully, and contrary to his jack the lad image, he held a deranged view of human sexuality.

IIRC, persecution of heretics began in earnest with him and the donatists, making a moloch out of Our Christ.

Note the following from Paul Johnson's History of Christianity:

At one point in Church history, Augustine and a follower of Pelagius get into a little shouting match, and here is some of that, with a little background to put it in context:
'One young follower [of Pelagius], Julian of Eclanum, engaged in spirited controversy with the angry old bishop. From their exchanges, fragmentary alas, Augustine emerges in an unpleasing light, a clever man stooping low for the purpose of vulgar appeal, remorselessly exploiting popular prejudice, an anti-intellectual, a hater of classical culture, a mob orator, and a sex-obsessive. In the infinitive wisdom of God, he noted the genitals were appropriately made the instruments for the transmission of original sin: 'Ecce unde!' That's the place! That's the place from which the first sin is passed on!' Adam had defied God -and for every man born, the shame at the uncontrollable stirring of the genitals was a reminder of and a fitting punishment for, the original crime of disobedience. Did not every man, he asked his cringing congregation, feel shame at having a nocturnal emission?(1) Of course he did. By contrast, Julian's line seems a straighforward deployment of elementary classical reason:
"You ask me why I would not consent to the idea that there is a sin that is part of human nature. I answer: it is improbable. It is untrue. It is unjust and impious. It makes it seem as if the devil were the maker of men. It violates and destroys the freedom of will...by saying that men are so incapable of virtue, that in the very womb of their mothers they are filled with bygone sins...and, what is disgusting as it is blasphemous, this view of yours fastens, as its most conclusive proof, on the common decency with which we cover our genitals.' Julian argued that sex was a kind of sixth sense, a form of neutral energy which might be used for good or ill. "Really?" replied Augustine, 'is that your experience? So, you would not have married couples restrain that evil -I refer, of course, to your favorite good? So you would have them jump into bed whenever they like, whenever they felt stirred by the desire? Far be it from them to postpone it till bedtime...if this is the sort of married life you lead, don't drag up your experience in debate.'

The Pelagian, Julian of Eclanum, is off the mark here to, but not like Augustine.