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To: Blogger; kosta50

"Does the wording of 4978 bother you as Orthodox?"

Quick answer; Yes. The pictures of the "Immaculate Heart of Mary" bother me too (so do the "Sacred Heart" pictures, but then again, I'm an icon sort of guy). So do terms like "Co-Redemptrix" as they are commonly understood.


5,196 posted on 01/11/2007 3:28:18 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis

I expected that they would as I am seeing a definite distinction in how Catholics view Mary and how Orthodox view her. There are some similarities, but the "veneration" of Catholicism goes much further.


5,197 posted on 01/11/2007 3:29:49 PM PST by Blogger
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To: Kolokotronis; Blogger; HarleyD; blue-duncan; xzins; Forest Keeper; wmfights; Gamecock
The pictures of the "Immaculate Heart of Mary" bother me too (so do the "Sacred Heart" pictures, but then again, I'm an icon sort of guy). So do terms like "Co-Redemptrix" as they are commonly understood.

There's hope.

From Wikipedia...

"In the Roman Catholic faith "the Fifth Marian Dogma" refers to a proposed dogmatic recognition of the Blessed Virgin Mary as Co-Redemptrix.

Mary has already been designated by the Church with four holy attributes (as Mother of God at the Council of Ephesus in 431, as ever Virgin in 649, as immaculately conceived by Pope Pius IX in 1854, and as being assumed into heaven body and soul by Pope Pius XII in 1950); this would be the fifth.

The proposed dogma would hold that "Mary is Co-Redemptrix (Co-operator in the Redemption) by her unique co-operation with God as the Woman, New Eve, Mother of the living. Assumed into heaven, Mary continues this saving office as Advocate and Mediatrix of all grace by her constant intercession to obtain for all men the gifts of salvation. Mary's role is subordinate to and always dependent upon the essential and chief role of her Son."

Some Catholics in the late twentieth century urged Pope John Paul II to infallibly declare Mary Co-Redemptrix, and he actually referred to her as such in a speech in 1985. In the early 1990s Professor Mark Miravalle of the Franciscan University of Steubenville in the United States launched a popular petition to urge Pope John Paul to make such a move. More than six million signatures were gathered from 148 countries, including those of Mother Teresa of Calcutta, Cardinal John O'Connor of New York, 41 other cardinals and 550 bishops. However, such a proposal was also heavily criticised by many Catholics who suggested that only Christ could be a Redeemer and that such an act would drive a wedge in relationships with other apostolic tradition Christian faiths, notably the Eastern Orthodox Church and Anglicanism, neither of whom would accept such a designation. Though both Pope Pius XI in 1935 and Pope John Paul II himself in 1985 did use the word co-redemptrix to refer to Mary, no formal infallible dogma supporting such a designation has been issued, notwithstanding the petition.

Yet.

5,210 posted on 01/11/2007 3:51:58 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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