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To: wmfights; annalex; kosta50; kawaii
"I would be more concerned about your brothers who run around praying to apparitions of a dead human than those who bury their nose in Scripture and discuss proper understanding."

Can't say as I have ever prayed to an "apparition" of a "dead" human. I can say this; the saints are not dead. They are more alive than we are and I have been with them, or rather they have been with me, in a manner so real that I could "feel" them next to me and "hear" them speak to me on a number of occasions and not always in those "foxholes" of life we all find ourselves now and again. In fact, it has mostly happened during the Divine Liturgy. I have also, WF, experienced demons, usually the little "logosmoi" I suspect even you have encountered and several times, some real big howling ones. They are real too, WF, in my personal experience, frankly, more "real" than you are to me since you're just words on a screen. I can't feel your presence here and I can't "hear" what you are saying. Of course, I know, intellectually, that you are real, but I'll tell you, with the saints, and those demons, its more than an intellectual understanding or acceptance. Its also very sensory, all in all, a perception of the nous, I suppose. I wouldn't be surprised if you think I'm delusional, but I assure you I am quite earnest in what I have said.
4,763 posted on 01/09/2007 6:47:46 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis; wmfights; annalex; kosta50
They are more alive than we are

Indeed, those who say we pray to dead people are denying the very eternal life Christ preached about.
4,764 posted on 01/09/2007 6:57:52 PM PST by kawaii (Orthodox Christianity -- Proclaiming the Truth Since 33 A.D.)
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To: Kolokotronis

You are not told to pray to anyone but God, be they in heaven or on earth.


4,789 posted on 01/10/2007 4:21:37 AM PST by Blogger (In nullo gloriandum quando nostrum nihil sit- Cyprian)
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To: Kolokotronis; wmfights; kosta50; kawaii
the saints are not dead

This persistent desire to bury and forget the martyrs of the Church is one of the reasons why it is hard to take Protestantism as a serious expression of faith.

It might have something to do with the fact that I inadvertently discovered just recently, that the eternal life of saints is most clearly stated in the same passage in which the salvific character of works is stated. It must be one of these verses that get skipped over by the sola scripturalists:

6 [God] will render to every man according to his works. 7 To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life

(Romans 2)


4,893 posted on 01/10/2007 11:16:21 AM PST by annalex
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