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To: The_Reader_David

By grace are you saved through faith and that not of yourself it is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast - for we are HIS workmanship- created unto good works IN CHRIST JESUS

For someone called the Reader, you don't read well. The testimony of Scripture is in faith in Christ, not in works. I would post a gazillion Scriptures, but I don't believe you would read them.

Second, there are two judgments. One for the saved and one for the lost. One is called the Great white throne judgment. One is called the Judgment seat of Christ. At the judgment seat of Christ believers are judged according to their works - not for salvation but for REWARD. GREAT IS YOUR REWARD - or YET AS BY FIRE.

The lost are judged at a different judgment altogether. They are judged based upon what they did with the light they had. All at that judgment will go to Hell. But, for some, the punishment will be less severe than for others (it will be better in that day for Sodom and Gomorrah than for these).

Now, on interpreting James, we are not far apart. My works are evidence my faith is genuine. If I say I have faith in Christ and do nothing for Him, however, chances are,my faith is not genuine. James is speaking of the evidence of faith and how we are justified as Christians before men (and women) of God.

Good works are a necessary component of the Christian life. But they do not make one a Christian. Faith in Jesus Christ ALONE through HIS GRACE ALONE is what saves. NOT OUR WORKS.

Here is how Paul put it... (Pay special attention to verse 5)
Titus 3

1Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

2To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.

3For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

8This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

9But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

10A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

11Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

12When I shall send Artemas unto thee, or Tychicus, be diligent to come unto me to Nicopolis: for I have determined there to winter.

13Bring Zenas the lawyer and Apollos on their journey diligently, that nothing be wanting unto them.

14And let our's also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.

15All that are with me salute thee. Greet them that love us in the faith. Grace be with you all. Amen.


Work we must! It is part of purpose as Christians. But it does not make us Christians. God's grace through the gift of faith does that.

If one says they have faith but have no works, then that faith is not genuine. It is dead. James said I will SHOW YOU my faith BY MY WORKS. It is evidentiary, not salvific and it is a key reason we were saved that we might do them (Ephesians 2:10) But the works follow after we are saved sealed and sanctified in Christ Jesus.


4,543 posted on 01/08/2007 8:11:14 PM PST by Blogger (In nullo gloriandum quando nostrum nihil sit- Cyprian)
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To: Blogger; The_Reader_David
4 ... after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

This says that the Incarnation was not due to our works. True. We agree.

8 ... maintain good works.

Aha.

4,557 posted on 01/08/2007 9:40:08 PM PST by annalex
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To: Blogger
If I say I have faith in Christ and do nothing for Him, however, chances are,my faith is not genuine. James is speaking of the evidence of faith and how we are justified as Christians before men (and women) of God.

Good works are a necessary component of the Christian life. But they do not make one a Christian. Faith in Jesus Christ ALONE through HIS GRACE ALONE is what saves. NOT OUR WORKS. [emphasis added]

This is another example of the problems created by the Western way of approaching theology (soteriology included) as an abstract, synthetic science like mathematics, rather than a positive science like physics. The works commended by Christ (and the Abraham's journey into the wilderness with the intent of sacrificing Isaac) are part of faith. The distinction you and Luther draw between faith qua faith and its activity or 'works', is a pure abstraction, of no practical use to those living the Christian life, and in fact, harmful to the Christian life. The distinction, itself, provides a temptation not to engage in good works (which you, yourself, admit are a necessary part of the Christian life) because 'we are save by faith, not by works'--leading to what St. James would call 'dead faith', which is no faith at all.

Those of us in traditional churches, who have in the saints models of the Christian life, know what living, saving faith looks like: it leads old men and women, youths and virgins alike, to endure horrible torments rather than renounce Christ; it leads men like St. Athony the Great and women like Amma Syncletica to take up Christ's command to the rich young ruler giving up their posessions and renouncing all to follow Christ; it heals the sick, visits the captives, succors the poor; . . .

4,589 posted on 01/09/2007 8:15:29 AM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know. . .)
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