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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Kolokotronis; annalex; jo kus; Blogger; HarleyD; blue-duncan; xzins; ...
To extrapolate the Lord's Supper into alchemy (which is precisely what the word "transubstantiation" implies) is to bestow on the "priestly" class a distinction never given them in Scripture -- an ability to literally change bread and wine into the flesh and blood of Christ. I'm aware RCs revere this alchemy. Protestants are repelled by it, recognizing the mass attempts to crucify Him anew every time it's performed

Try reading and understanding what epiklesis means. The change is made by the Holy Spirit.

That being said, in the RCC the epiklesis has been somewhat diminished, but it is there. In the Orthodox Church, the epiklesis is the crowning point of priest's supplication, not magic. The "magic' is done by the Holy Spirit.

From the Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom:

So as you see, the power is not in the priest. The priest is simply doing his priestly duty to which he was called and ordained, to ask God.

The oldest liturgy goes back to St. James in Jerusalem. You figure out the year. I guess the world had to wait for almost 2,000 years to be told that St. James also believed in "alchemy."

To say that a priest is some sort of a magician and alchemist is shamefully ignorant to put it mildly.

4,438 posted on 01/08/2007 10:24:00 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; annalex; jo kus; Blogger; HarleyD; blue-duncan; xzins

Here's the epiklesis from the Divine Liturgy of St. James:

"Have mercy on us, Lord God, the Father, the Almighty. Have mercy on us, God our Saviour. Have mercy on us, O God, in accordance with your great mercy, and send forth upon these holy gifts, here set forth, your all-holy Spirit, (bowing) the Lord and giver of life, enthroned with you, God and Father, and your only-begotten Son, co-reigning, consubstantial and co-eternal, who spoke by the Law and the Prophets and by your New Covenant, who came down in the form of a dove upon our Lord Jesus Christ in the river Jordan, and rested upon him, who came down upon your holy Apostles in the form of fiery tongues in the upper room of holy and glorious Sion on the day of Pentecost. (Standing up) Your same all-holy Spirit, Lord, send down on us and on these gifts here set forth,

(aloud): that having come by his holy, good and glorious presence, he may sanctify this bread and make it the holy body of Christ,

People: Amen.

Priest: and this Cup the precious blood of Christ,

People: Amen.


4,442 posted on 01/08/2007 10:48:29 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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