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To: blue-duncan; Blogger; Dr. Eckleburg; bornacatholic; P-Marlowe
In all of these passages of scripture you cite, the people that Paul, Jesus and His brother James are talking or writing to are believers

To a believer, works are salvific and he is judged by them. To a non-believer, it is not clear, but he is still called to good works because there is a "law written in his heart". Exactly what the Church teaches.

In Matthew 25 the general judgement of everyone is described. Faith is not directly mentioned. Likewise in the last chapter of Apocalypse.

Generally, what Christ taught is addressed to all. With the trick of noticing who Christ is addressing and then saying "That does not apply to me" anything can be dismissed. You found a way to selectively negate any of the scripture.

I can tell you where the audience is important: when an action is described. When Christ heals a paralytic, He heals that man only. Likewise, when He breathed the Holy Ghost, He breathed It to the Apostles only -- your earlier mistake from the Erasmus thread.

Now, earlier did you indeed maintain that the Beatitudes are solely for the Apostles' consumption, or did you misspeak? Because if you dismiss the Beatitudes, it is hard to take any of your theological opinions seriously.

4,410 posted on 01/08/2007 7:56:23 AM PST by annalex
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To: annalex; Blogger; Dr. Eckleburg; bornacatholic; P-Marlowe

"Now, earlier did you indeed maintain that the Beatitudes are solely for the Apostles' consumption, or did you misspeak?"

That's not what I said. What I did say was, "In Matthew 5-7, Jesus is talking to His disciples. He has already told them a couple of times that "the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand". Now He is telling them what is their inheritance in the Kingdom and the rewards that await them. There are unbelievers in the multitudes that are auditors who will learn what the blessings of the Kingdom are, but this is not a prescription for entrance into the blessing, but a description of the blessings of the believers now. Verses 5:3 and 5:10 say "for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven". Is, is in the present indicative, a present possession. The two verses form a stylistic device called an "inclusion". That means that everything bracketed between 5:3 and 5:10 is included under the one theme "for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven".

The message in Matthew 25 was given, again, to the disciples (Matt. 24:1) "And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple." In the teaching Jesus calls the "elect" (Matt. 24:31) "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." "blessed" (Matt. 25:34) "Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:". Now notice there is no mention of works salvation, in fact, Jesus says the elect's, blessed's place had been prepared for them before the foundation of the world. Now the evidence that it is not a works salvation is the question the blessed asks, "when did we do...". the good works they do are the fruit of the new nature in Christ Jesus not the cause of it. It is something they naturally do because of the grace given to them in Christ Jesus. If it was a works based salvation the statement of the blessed would be "look what we did...".

Paul echoes this message in Ephesians 2:7-10, "That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

We are created in Christ Jesus unto good works, not because of good works or along with good works. Our salvation, our blessedness, is by grace through faith; a gift of god, not works or with works.


4,533 posted on 01/08/2007 7:14:23 PM PST by blue-duncan
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