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To: kosta50
Well, you may bounce that off your fellow Calvinsits, Dr. Eckleburg and Harley D, and others who have on numerous occasions made it very clear that free will is just something "silly" the Church believes in. Apparently not all Calvinsits believe/profess the same thing.

If we truly believed that we would be out of sync with Calvin, the Westminster Confession, and Luther. Man has a choice; it's just that he always choose to do evil. It's like putting a cookie and broccoli in front of a three year old and asking him to choose one.

4,391 posted on 01/08/2007 5:11:25 AM PST by HarleyD ("For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." Lk 19:10)
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To: HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; Blogger

Meant to ping you to above.


4,392 posted on 01/08/2007 5:13:39 AM PST by HarleyD ("For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost." Lk 19:10)
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To: HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; Blogger
Man has a choice; it's just that he always choose to do evil. It's like putting a cookie and broccoli in front of a three year old and asking him to choose one

You are subtly avoiding the word "free," HD. There is a difference between a choice and a free choice. Giving a child a cooke and a broccli is not a choice; it's a given. Might as well just give him a cookie! Especially if you KNOW what he will choose in advance because you wrote the book, and you decided that he will "choose" the cookie.

But doing that to the child is also tempting him and baiting him. Because the child cannot reason, he can be tricked, fooled and trapped. What happend in the Garden of Eden was nothing like that. Adam and Eve had a full faculty of reason. God's instructions were clear. They were not tricked into taking a cookie.

If anything God gave Adam and Eve a chance to repent; instead, Adam chose to blame God for giving him that woman who tempted him, and Eve blamed the Serpent God permitted in the Garden. What was lacking in both was humility to repent and ask for forgiveness. Instead, they blamed either God or the devil for their choice, just as we do to this day!

Your example is no different than giving a dog a piece of meant and an onion. Guess which one will the dog go for? That's because dogs are dogs. Their nature is carnivorous. We, on the other hand, have a choice; we are not defined solely by our carnal nature. It comes with reason.

God wanted us to be rational creatures, capable of making right decisions. God's blessings are just that: blessings. And what God gives is good. What we do with out talents is up to us; we can either multiply them for the benefit of others or we can use them for evil ends. Either way, it is our decision, with God's permission and blessing.

That's why children are not allowed to choose freely. Their reason is simply not developed enough to do that. So, we must make a decision for them until they are reasonable enough (accroding to our human standards) to make autonomous decisions.

God did not create man to choose evil. Man chose evil freely and God permitted it. God decided that He will not force our choice, for a forced choice is no choice as forced love is no love.

4,399 posted on 01/08/2007 6:45:25 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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