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To: Blogger; HarleyD; Kolokotronis; blue-duncan; bornacatholic; xzins
Don't pretend to act like an authority on Luther. You clearly are either1)clueless as to his point or 2)deliberately distorting his point

So, why don't you educate us? Are you the "official truth?"

What Luther proposed is immoral, contrary to everything Christianity believes: he is calling on us to sin and not worry. If +Augustine said something similar, then he was immoral too.

"Love God and do what you want" as HD quotes, makes it easy to love God and excuses sinfulness. If God lets us do anything, how can you not love such a God? Where in the scripture does God say "do what you want, as long as you love Me?"

The Beatitudes tell us who goes to heaven and who doesn't. The poor in spirit, the merciful, the suffering, not the party-animals who love God because He "let's" them do anything as long as they love Him.

But, don't let that stop you. Please explain the "official truth" of Luther's message.

3,994 posted on 01/05/2007 8:29:24 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50

Luther is speaking of our condition as human beings and the depths of the grace of Christ. Here is the full quote:

13. If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary but
the true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the
true, not an imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only
imaginary sinners. Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong, but let
your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the
victor over sin, death, and the world. We will commit sins while we
are here, for this life is not a place where justice resides. We,
however, says Peter (2. Peter 3:13) are looking forward to a new
heaven and a new earth where justice will reign. It suffices that
through God's glory we have recognized the Lamb who takes away the
sin of the world. No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to
kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day. Do you think
such an exalted Lamb paid merely a small price with a meager
sacrifice for our sins? Pray hard for you are quite a sinner.


3,997 posted on 01/05/2007 8:42:41 AM PST by Blogger
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To: kosta50; Blogger; HarleyD; Kolokotronis; Forest Keeper; bornacatholic; xzins; Dr. Eckleburg; ...
"The Beatitudes tell us who goes to heaven and who doesn't."

No, the Beatitudes describe those who are listening to Him at the time. There's is the Kingdom of God.

3,998 posted on 01/05/2007 8:46:16 AM PST by blue-duncan
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To: kosta50
Luther's "Sin Boldly ... "

What Luther proposed is immoral, contrary to everything Christianity believes: ...


What Luther proposes here ... is immoral ... and is not worthy of his calling.

It is also not in agreement with the teaching of Jesus and the Apostle Paul ...
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
_____________________________________________________
Romans 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body,
that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Luther was no more (or less) perfect ... than many of the popes.

3,999 posted on 01/05/2007 9:01:20 AM PST by Quester
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To: kosta50

More Luther (for context as to his thinking)

Luther's Morning Prayer
From:
Luther's Little Instruction Book
(The Small Catechism of Martin Luther)
Appendix 1: Devotions
Translated by Robert E. Smith
July 11, 1994




My Heavenly Father, I thank You, through Jesus Christ, Your
beloved Son, that You kept me safe from all evil and danger last
night. Save me, I pray, today as well, from every evil and sin, so
that all I do and the way that I live will please you. I put
myself in your care, body and soul and all that I have. Let Your
holy Angels be with me, so that the evil enemy will not gain power
over me. Amen.

A Sacristy Prayer
by Martin Luther

Translated From:

_Dr. Martin Luthers Werke_,
(Weimar: Hermann Boehlaus Nachfolger, 1909),
Band 43, pp. 513.
Translated by James Kellerman


Lord God, You have appointed me as a Bishop and Pastor in Your Church, but
you see how unsuited I am to meet so great and difficult a task. If I had
lacked Your help, I would have ruined everything long ago. Therefore, I
call upon You: I wish to devote my mouth and my heart to you; I shall
teach the people. I myself will learn and ponder diligently upon You Word.
Use me as Your instrument -- but do not forsake me, for if ever I should
be on my own, I would easily wreck it all.

From his preface to Romans:
_Sin_ in the Scriptures means not only external works of the body
but also all those movements within us which bestir themselves and
move us to do the external works, namely, the depth of the heart
with all its powers. Therefore the word _do_ should refer to a
person's completely falling into sin. No external work of sin
happens, after all, unless a person commit himself to it
completely, body and soul. In particular, the Scriptures see into
the heart, to the root and main source of al sin: unbelief in the
depth of the heart. Thus, even as faith alone makes just and
brings the Spirit and the desire to do good external works, so it
is only unbelief which sins and exalts the flesh and brings desire
to do evil external works. That's what happened to Adam and Eve in
Paradise (cf. Genesis 3).


4,000 posted on 01/05/2007 9:03:46 AM PST by Blogger
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; sitetest; BlackElk; sandyeggo
Hear Gaalatians 5

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, Idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, uarrels, dissensions, sects, Envies, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like. Of the which I foretell you, as I have foretold to you, that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God.

*That is what the 16th century protestant revolutionaries have wrought. Soley the works of the flesh - such as their Sacrifice-Free services. Innumerable attacks against orthopraxis and innumerable denominations and endless quarrels over what Scripture means.

But the fruit of the Spirit is, charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity, goodness, longanimity, Mildness, faith, modesty, continency, chastity.

*Do you see anything there saying the Holy Spirit will be given to every individual reading Scripture so their private interpretation will be truthful? I don't.

Perhaps that is why we are witnessing first one protestant disagreeing with another over the meaning of scripture and each of them disagreeing with the third protestant and on and on and on. Yet ALL claim to read Holy Writ guided by the Holy Spirit. That makes the Holy Spirit the Source of disunity, disagreement and denominations. It makes the Holy Spirit Satan

4,045 posted on 01/05/2007 12:29:23 PM PST by bornacatholic
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; sitetest; BlackElk
Kosta, brother. Get with it. EVERY Christian is guided by the Holy Spirit to read and interpret Scripture as they see fit but YOU are forbidden to read what Luther wrote and then write what you think he meant and write what you clearly see are the evil and insane consequences of his psychotic musings.

It only makes sense when you think about it

Of course, that makes Luther more untouchable and free from criticism than Scripture,but, that IS his status amongst some who unquestioningly echo the oral traditions of the 16th century demigod.

The meaning of scripture is up for grabs. Luther? Not so much...

4,055 posted on 01/05/2007 2:14:36 PM PST by bornacatholic
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