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To: Forest Keeper

"[Blogger to Kosta:] Oh, and I have a feeling that Luther's "Sin Boldly" which you all love to quote is somewhat akin to Athanasius' "Jesus died so we can be God."

That is an outstanding comparison, Blogger. :) Fair is fair. I'm going to remember it. :)"

The difference, of course, being that Luther's comment can lead to damnation while +Athanasius' states theosis, FK.

"A person is perfect in this life when as a pledge of what is to come he receives the grace to assimilate himself to the various stages of Christ's life. In the life to come perfection is made manifest through the power of deification." +Gregory of Sinai

"But we also know that the fulfillment of the commandments of God gives true knowledge, since it is through this that the soul gains health. How could a rational soul be healthy, if it is sick in its cognitive faculty? So we know that the commandments of God also grant knowledge, and not that alone, but deification also" +Gregory Palamas

"The grace of deification thus transcends nature, virtue and knowledge, and (as St. Maximus says) `all these things are inferior to it.' Every virtue and imitation of God on our part indeed prepares those who practice them for divine union, but the mysterious union itself is effected by grace. It is through grace that `the entire Divinity comes to dwell in fullness in those deemed worth,' and all the saints in their entire being dwell in God, receiving God in His wholeness, and gaining no other reward for their ascent to Him than "God Himself." +Gregory Palamas


3,975 posted on 01/05/2007 4:00:42 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis; Blogger; kosta50; Dr. Eckleburg; wmfights
[Blogger to Kosta:] “Oh, and I have a feeling that Luther's "Sin Boldly" which you all love to quote is somewhat akin to Athanasius' "Jesus died so we can be God."

[FK to Blogger] “That is an outstanding comparison, Blogger. :) Fair is fair. I'm going to remember it. :)"

[Kolo to FK] “The difference, of course, being that Luther's comment can lead to damnation while +Athanasius' states theosis, FK.”

FWIW-I find nothing different in Luther’s statement “Sin boldly” and Augustine’s statement “Love God and do what you want.” Both Luther and Augustine are simply saying that God paid the penalty for our sins. We don't have to climb 39 steps on our knees kissing the stones and asking forgiveness on each step. We don't atone for our sins; the price has already been paid by God.

I do have a problem with Athanasius’ statement. Our Lord Jesus did not die so that we can become God. Jesus died so that we could be sons (adopted) of God. A subtle but distinct difference.

3,982 posted on 01/05/2007 5:11:49 AM PST by HarleyD ("No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him..." John 6:44)
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To: Kolokotronis; HarleyD; Blogger; kosta50
The difference, of course, being that Luther's comment can lead to damnation while +Athanasius' states theosis, FK.

Certainly both comments have been subject to wild misinterpretations throughout the ages. Thankfully, we both know that Luther was not advocating sin, and +Athanasius was not teaching that we can be one in essence with God.

[+Gregory Palamas:] ... It is through grace that `the entire Divinity comes to dwell in fullness in those deemed worth,' and all the saints in their entire being dwell in God, receiving God in His wholeness, and gaining no other reward for their ascent to Him than "God Himself."

Thank you for all the quotes. What does Palamas mean by "in those deemed worth"? Also, what is his use of the word "saints" here?

4,580 posted on 01/09/2007 6:21:57 AM PST by Forest Keeper
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