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To: jo kus
The point is that men who sin DO turn back to God. Wicked people do not.

And I would say that since we are ALL wicked, that some of us turn to God and some do not, according to God's good, pleasing, and perfect will. While there are plenty of examples of the "wicked" remaining wicked, there is also the possibility for them to be redeemed. For instance:

2 Chron 7:14 : if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

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Yes, we have all sinned. But the Scripture talks about righteous people, nonetheless. Apparently, we don't have to be absolutely perfect to be righteous.

OK, I agree in full. Solely by my own "figuring", and not from any outside reading, I have always thought that the interpretation of Rom. 3 was in order to protect Mary. (I know you are not admitting to Mary sinning in your comment.) Therefore, it would be new to me if you are saying that "All" means "All", but there is a specific exception for Mary. I thought before that you were saying that the "All" only referred to a subset of all people, and said nothing about "other" people, such as righteous people or non-Jews. Comments?

Who says that all righteous men are sinless? David was called righteous. Does this mean he was sinless?

I was wondering if you did! :) But you nicely clarified that. Thank you. :)

3,943 posted on 01/04/2007 5:39:58 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper
And I would say that since we are ALL wicked

And I would say that is not what Christianity has taught before Martin Luther came on the scene. Is King David called wicked? We know he sinned, but does this make him wicked? Apparently, being considered wicked implies that one does NOT turn to God after sinning, not that a man will EVER sin...

The Bible is chock full of people who are righteous, who DO turn to God, even after sinning. Unforutately, because your paradigm is based on the premise that ALL are wicked, you will never understand Catholicism at its core.

Regards

4,364 posted on 01/07/2007 8:48:10 PM PST by jo kus (Humility is present when one debases oneself without being obliged to do so- St.Chrysostom; Phil 2:8)
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