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To: kosta50; xzins; P-Marlowe; Kolokotronis; Dr. Eckleburg

Kosta, that's BULL and you know it. What possible benefit would the Protestants have gained by saying faith over grace? You call the Codices used by Westcott and Hort as reliable and the ones used by Stephanus and Scrivener as unreliable. Who do you think YOU are. Your rhetoric needs to be toned down and a little respect given in this debate. You may truly believe they are superior, but you don't have to accuse the translators of the KJV of tailoring a text to Protestant correctness. The word in Scrivner and Stephanus is Pisteuo. In Westcott-Hort it is Charis. In the Latin it is Gratia. You can't get Charis when the codex says Pisteuo and there is no evidence that the KJV translators did anything other than make an honest attempt to translate the Bible as literally as possible from the text they had. There would have been no benefit to say Stephen was full of faith over grace. A protestant understanding would object to either.

The Holman Christian Standard Bible, incidentally says "grace." Since it is a conservative Southern Baptist translation, where is this Protestant Correctness you speak of. It is a charge meant to insult but is as hollow as the hate that spawned it.


3,853 posted on 01/04/2007 10:38:47 AM PST by Blogger
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To: Blogger; xzins; bornacatholic; Kolokotronis; Dr. Eckleburg
Are you suggesting that the KJV did not change some things? I have no doubt the authors of the book known as KJV were very much interested in reflecting their beliefs.

Appealing to their "honest intentions" is weak, as that can be applied to Gnostics and Muslims as well as the authors of Masoretic text, the Septuagint(s), and the Dead Sea Scrolls. They all believed their version was correct!

Trouble is we don't know which is more correct. But there is circumstantial evidence which is less reliable. Certainly Textus Receptus is one of them.

Going back almost 1700 years, we read from the Retractions of St. Augustine that Mat 5:22 contains the phrase "without a cause" in some Latin translations, which is absent in Greek originals.

Whether he was using the Old Latin Bible or not, I don't know. But if something is not in the text used for translations, but appears in the translation, chances are the translation is the culprit.

And when it come to translation nightmare, the KJV is based on Textus Receptus, a retro-engineered "Greek" source based on Latin text! In addition to that the KJV is sprinkled with reformist terminology that could not have existed in the originals! These changes were put into the KJVC intentionally to reflect theology and terminology unknown to Christianity up to that time.

Finally, my opinion of KJV is just that, my opinion, and does not qualify as an ad hominem even if I call it a fraud for all the good and valid reasons stated and then some.

3,883 posted on 01/04/2007 11:55:11 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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