Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Blogger; Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; bornacatholic; annalex; jo kus; FormerLib; ...
There does seem to be an order of the person's of the trinity. The Son does as the Father wishes

Here we go again. I hate to break it to you, but that is Arianism. There is no Hypostatic subordination in Godhead.

You keep thinking of Jesus Who, in His human nature, submits to Father's wishes. But since your concept of Jesus is different from what the Church preached, always and everywhere, your conclusions follow Arian thinking of a lesser God.

The monarchy of the Father is that He is the source of everything and all, including the divinity. The Son (Logos) is distinguished from the Father not for being different or subordinate to Him, but for being begotten of Him. The Spirit differs from the Son not in being lesser to Him or to the Father, but – as regards His existence – in proceeding from the Father.

Our Lord Jesus Christ prayed to the Father in strict obedience to Him in His human nature.

When it comes to Christ, it is absolutely essential to distinguish everything He says in terms of His two natures. Otherwise you will be asking such things as "To whom did Jesus pray..." and implying that Logos is somehow inferior to the father.

3,277 posted on 01/01/2007 10:40:40 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3275 | View Replies ]


To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; bornacatholic; annalex; jo kus; FormerLib; P-Marlowe; ...

Oh Gee, Kosta. Since you have so happily pointed out to myself that I am an Arian (in spite of my frequent and explicit statements that Jesus is God and eternally preexistent), I guess I'll just leave my own church and go join the Jehovah's Witnesses!

Give be a break! You're just itching to tag me with some ancient heresy! You will not find it.

Now, lets' take this slowly. Did I say subordination? No. I said order. The members of the trinity are equal, yet there is an order to how they operate as is spelled out in Scripture (particularly in regard to Jesus' humanity, but also in operation as deity [since the Holy Spirit has His job of testifying of Jesus, and Jesus awaits the Father's command to get His bride]). Get your head out of your patriarch's face and read the Bible for yourself and you wouldn't make such accusations!

John 14
10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

31But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

John 15
10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

26But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:


John 8:29 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
29And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

John 10:18
18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Mark 14:36 "Father," he prayed, "my Father! All things are possible for you. Take this cup of suffering away from me. Yet not as I want, but what you want."

John 12:49
49For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 5:19
So Jesus answered them, "I tell you the truth; the Son can do nothing on his own; he does only what he sees his Father doing. What the Father does, the Son also does.

This is not saying that Jesus is in any way inferior to the Father or that the Spirit is inferior to Jesus; but there is an ORDER to the operation of the Trinity that also represents its harmony. Or would you prefer that the Trinity be disorderly?

Since you will recognize Creedalism, Here is Athanasius puts it:

# Perfect God and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting;
# Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father, as touching his Manhood.
# Who although he be [is] God and Man, yet he is not two, but one Christ;
# One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking assumption of the Manhood into God;
# One altogether, not by confusion of Substance [Essence], but by unity of Person.
# For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ;
# Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell [Hades, spirit-world], rose again the third day from the dead.
# He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God [God the Father] Almighty,


Phil. 2:6-11: who, though he was in the form of God, did
not count equality with God a thing to be
grasped, but emptied himself, taking the
form of a servant, being born in the like-
ness of men. And being found in human form
he humbled himself and became obedient unto
death, even death on a cross. Therefore God
has highly exalted him and bestowed on him
the name which is above every name, that at
the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in
heaven and on earth and under the earth, and
every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is
Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


3,279 posted on 01/01/2007 11:50:13 AM PST by Blogger
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3277 | View Replies ]

To: kosta50; Blogger; Kolokotronis; bornacatholic; annalex; jo kus; FormerLib
The Spirit differs from the Son not in being lesser to Him or to the Father, but – as regards His existence – in proceeding from the Father.

Oh Well, since I AM THE ONLY ONE HERE, I would have to respectfully disagree with you on this one, Kosta. :) Now, I KNOW I won't get a lick of support in this, but I'm still going to throw out the completely crazy Protestant idea that the Spirit proceeds from both the Father AND Son. Blogger, sometimes we Protestants have to go way out on a limb on things like this, but that's what we're here to do! :)

3,791 posted on 01/04/2007 7:23:11 AM PST by Forest Keeper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3277 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson