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By my thinking, the point of calling Mary a virgin was that she was still a virgin when she gave birth to Christ. This truly required a miracle, and I think we agree that it did really happen. Whether she remained a virgin after that is a fair matter for debate, but I do not think it takes anything away from Mary to believe she later had children in the conventional sense. It's a separate issue.

I disagree. If Mary being a virgin AFTER Christ didn't matter (or she actually had other blood children), then it would be false to call her a "virgin". It seems very odd to me that Mary would have sex and deliver other children after God went through the trouble of bringing forth a Savior through her without the aid of a male. It would seem more likely that her womb was set aside for only one - the gates would remain closed...

To me, her virginity has the meaning of a full-blown miracle. It has very high meaning.

Oh, her virginity has more than that!

I'm afraid that the scriptures do not reveal to me any intertwining among Mary and God's Church in the sense I think you are suggesting.

When the linkage is provided, it is difficult to NOT see what God has provided through Mary and through the Church and how they are intertwined. The destiny of the former is the hope of the latter.

One reason I can't reach the Roman Catholic level of veneration for her is that she got so little ink, as it were.

So did the Holy Spirit. What do we know about Him? Not a lot. Amount of ink is a poor way of measuring the importance of something, especially when we are dealing with a God who is humble, a God who became a poor infant child in a backwater country.

Merry Christmas to you and yours.

If Mary being a virgin AFTER Christ didn't matter (or she actually had other blood children), then it would be false to call her a "virgin".,/p>

Why so? IMO, what made her virginity noteworthy and special was that it was the manner in which she gave birth to the one and only Jesus Christ. It identified Jesus apart from all others born, ever. That is worth remembering, and so she is. After Jesus was born, though, I don't see why she should or should not have remained a virgin, since she was never destined to give birth to anyone like Jesus again. One Jesus, one virgin birth.

Oh, her virginity has more than that!

I know. Sometimes it makes me nervous. LOL! :)

FK: "One reason I can't reach the Roman Catholic level of veneration for her is that she got so little ink, as it were."

So did the Holy Spirit. What do we know about Him? Not a lot. Amount of ink is a poor way of measuring the importance of something, ...

Oh, I don't know. In the NIV there are 95 references to the full phrase "Holy Spirit", while there are only 57 for all the "Marys" combined. I think the name AND concept of the Spirit got a ton more written about Him than did Mary. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I would guess that for every one thing about the Holy Spirit that an average Catholic could tell me, that he could tell me at least 10 things about Mary. This is the sort of thing I am talking about that doesn't sound quite in line to me.