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To: D-fendr

I can understand why that statement would be confusing.

From a God to Man standpoint, they are free because He does not prohibit them from choosing Him.

From a personal standpoint, they have become willing slaves to sin and are therefore not free. Their "want to" is inclined against God. He doesn't keep them from Him, but neither will they come to Him. Nobody will. Not unless the Spirit of God regenerates them, draws them, gifts them with faith.

Again, God does not force them or prohibit them from coming. But they won't come because they have willingly and with every desire within them enslaved themselves. They can't come because their own will prohibits them from doing so.

God's sovereign choice in election works in such a way that the will of the person does change. They want to turn to God - but only as a result of His work in their lives.

It is a delicate balance, I admit. And, it makes some uncomfortable.

But, when you think of it in terms of what does God have to do. The answer is, He has to be just. Nothing more. He doesn't HAVE TO show mercy. And, He is not fair - because fair would have meant Hell for all of us and no cross for Christ. Through His mercy, He gives grace according to His sovereign choice and good pleasure. Not based upon anything we do for Him. Not based upon anything we will do for Him. Just because He is God and it is what He chose to do with His creatures. He allows the others to exist for this short season (in eternity's spance), so that we can learn what his grace is, what mercy is, what good is, what evil is. We wouldn't have had a point of reference without Him doing it that way. And when we learn of Him as His children and all He has done for us, we love Him and serve Him willingly and He has a willing fellowship with us as He desired from before the foundation of the world.


2,994 posted on 12/26/2006 7:16:58 PM PST by Blogger
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To: Blogger
they have become willing slaves to sin

Because of Adam, not themselves. And then God, in your view, leaves them so. Some, but not others, for no reason of their own doing.

Yes, it is too delicate a balance for me; it violates my direct knowledge. It can be supported either way with proof texting scripture. Theologically, I would have to go with the view presented to you by others, the Orthodox, in response earlier. It holds without the need of, to me, such a precarious, bordering on contradictory, view of the history. That's my view on the level of exegesis.

He doesn't HAVE TO show mercy.

Here is where I asked your personal knowledge of God. And I disagree still. It's personal, so there's no proof, right/wrong in the sense of logical or theological argument. It's a difference in personal experience.

For me God is merciful, compassionate and loving - above all else. And patient and kind and forgiving. He does not force Himself, nor withold Himself.

When I read descriptions of God from the Calvinist view - single or double - I don't recognize the God I know. This is what I asked you in essence: is this a description of the God you know personally? Does it describe the Person you know?

Again, this is not a personal criticism, though it is about personal experience. I appreciate your courtesy, time and effort in your replies.

2,996 posted on 12/26/2006 8:21:33 PM PST by D-fendr
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