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To: annalex
I construct fake traditions? Oh, Annalex. You should really watch your pro-Catholic blindness. It is so strongly opposed to anything a Protestant says that sometimes you find yourself at odds with even Catholic sources.

"Mary will be what every Jewish girl dreamed of being: the Mother of the Messiah."
http://www.catholic.net/RCC/Periodicals/Dossier/nov97/mary.html

Following this debunking, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to Jesus, "`Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts which nursed you!’ Jesus replied, `More than that; blessed are those who hear the Word of God and keep it’ " (Luke 11:27-28).

Jesus had just been publicly acknowledged as the Messiah, the Son of David. The woman in the crowd was stating what every Jewish woman longed for: to be the mother of the Messiah. Such was to be a position of great honor and being barren was considered a curse since it meant that a woman couldn’t possibly be the mother of the Messiah.
http://www.stathanasius.org/bible/jul_2_2000.html

Mary receives some shocking, amazing news. She is to be the mother of the Messiah. All the Jews were looking forward to the coming of the Messiah, and expectations were especially high at this time. Even the Gentiles were expecting someone very important to be born. Every Jewish girl hoped she would be the mother of the Messiah. They thought he would be a king to free Israel from Roman bondage.
http://www.regnumchristi.org/english/imprimir/index.phtml?se=39&ca=95&te=60&id=9078

And, last but certainly not least...
In that tradition, the aspirations of the "daughters of Israel," also in reference to worship and God's law, went rather in the direction of motherhood since virginity was not an ideal which was embraced or even appreciated. Israel was completely caught up in the feeling of awaiting the Messiah. Women were psychologically oriented toward motherhood also in regard to the Messiah's coming. That personal and ethnic tendency rose to the level of prophecy which permeated the history of Israel, a people in whom the messianic expectation and woman's generative function were strictly connected. Marriage, therefore, took on a religious aspect for the "daughters of Israel."
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/aud19900404en.html

So, you contend that I have constructed a fake tradition? I can understand the sentiment. Considering your source of authority does it all the time, and considering the fact that I merely mirror what they said towards the mindset of Jewish women at the time, it might be a bit difficult for you to discern the truth amongst all of their "fakery."
2,801 posted on 12/22/2006 7:39:48 PM PST by Blogger
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To: Blogger
I do not dispute the hypothesis that Mary had placed the Annunciation in the context of Isaiah 7, nor the fact that she in fact is the fulfillment of it, nor the cultural makeup of the 1c Jews. I am merely saying that given all that, Luke 1:34 still does not make sense, unless Mary did not intend to have carnal relations with Joseph.

If she saw herself as a literal fulfillment of Isaiah 7 in the sense of virgin birth (not the only reading of that passage, as you probably know), her question would have been "How can this be because I am engaged to be married?"

If she saw herself as a mother of the Messiah born through natural means, she would not have any question at all, as she was on her way to be mariied and soon a mother.

The only way her response in v. 34 makes sense is if she did not intend to have carnal relations with Joseph.

2,803 posted on 12/22/2006 7:50:05 PM PST by annalex
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To: Blogger; annalex; Forest Keeper
Jesus had just been publicly acknowledged as the Messiah, the Son of David. The woman in the crowd was stating what every Jewish woman longed for: to be the mother of the Messiah. Such was to be a position of great honor and being barren was considered a curse since it meant that a woman couldn’t possibly be the mother of the Messiah. http://www.stathanasius.org/bible/jul_2_2000.html

B: Thanks for your well sourced comments.

I have always thought that Mary really didn't understand the enormity of what was going on. If she truly knew Jesus was God incarnate, how could she raise him as a normal child? How could she rebuke him at the temple and not understand what he meant when he said he was at his father's house? How could she come with his brothers to take him home when he had started his ministry?

2,846 posted on 12/23/2006 9:17:35 AM PST by wmfights (Romans 8:37-39)
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