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To: Blogger
You not only disagree with "eminent theologians" you disagree with Jesus, who, unlike you, had no theological credentials/doctorates.

That book I cited quotes quite a few eminent prot theologians. You disagree with them about scripture.

All of that being true, and it is, then who decides what is truthful or not?

You think you decide.

Scripture tells us the Church decides

No matter which way you slice it - thick or thin - you are not an authority about Scripture.

That is a simple statement of fact. It is not an insult. I am not an authority either.

Jesus established a Hierarchal Church. It has authority to teach and settle arguments about Doctrine - that is the main purpose of Ecumenical Councils - which you reject.

It would be interesting to know how many in here think themselves bound by your personal opinions about Scripture vs how many there are in here who think the Church - Pope and Bishops binding, bind them.

Just curious...

2,741 posted on 12/22/2006 11:05:52 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic

Borncatholic. What you have made are assertions. I disagree with your assertions. I disagree based upon my understanding of Scripture. You believe what you believe by faith alone. the "Church" has told you that the "Church" decides what Scripture says. The Apostle Paul, however praised the Bereans for searching the Scriptures to see if what he said was true. Jesus told people, not church hierarchies, to SEARCH THE SCRIPTURES. Paul said that ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION AND IS PROFITABLE. John said that we have no need of a teacher. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will teach us all things. Over and over and over and over and over again the clear testimony of Scripture is that we, individuals, are to search the Scriptures for the answers to theological and other issues. You have chosen to ignore that because your CHURCH teaches you differently. Fine. That is your prerogative.

As far as the councils go, I only disagree with them insofar as what they say is contradictory to Scripture or the implications of their statements can be misconstrued to contradict Scripture. They are mere men. They are no holier than anyone else. They don't have the "edge" on Scriptural interpretation. Insofar as they listened to the Spirit's direction, I believe they made the right decisions. But, many times they cast Scdripture aside and moved into areas of speculation which netted bad doctrine which was then added to and expounded upon and ended up with Mary being exalted to the point that in the EWTN store there are more statues and items dedicated to MARY than to Jesus Christ.

Your church is wrong. I'll go even further. Your church is anti-Scriptural and frankly Anti-Mary and Anti-Christ. Your church has rejected the key reasons that Christ came. He came to save us. He came to save us purely from His grace, unmerited favor. He came to fulfill the law in that the law was only our teacher. It could never save us. Jesus HIMSELF said that he who believes in him HAS eternal life. Not He who believes, and does penance, and is baptized as an infant, and takes communion, and is confirmed, and has last rites, and "venerates" my mother, and blindly accepts whatever the Popes and second sons of european aristocrats decides is true, and belongs to a hierarchical institution - has eternal life. The Catholic church therefore bears NO RESEMBLANCE to biblical Christianity. I will not back down from that.

With that said, are their Catholics on their way to heaven? YES! They are there because of their faith in Jesus as Savior. That is a testimony to the mercy and grace of our Lord. He doesn't care WHAT is over the door of our church building. He cares about whether we have a relationship with Him and nothing more.

Bornacatholic - I do not call on you to leave your church. I don't care if you go to Mass or what you do. I do call on you to read the Scriptures. Immerse yourself in them. As the Holy Spirit to guide you. Jesus said that is what He is here for. Take advantage of that. Don't pick up commentaries. Don't pick up catechism sections. Just you and Jesus. If you come to the same conclusions, then fine. But at least you will have stepped aside and objectively pursued the evidence. Right now, you are only parroting what your church says is evidence. And you are condemning everyone else in the world that disagrees with your church for doing so.


2,752 posted on 12/22/2006 12:49:55 PM PST by Blogger
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