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To: D-fendr
'Nevertheless, you are making a choice because you value enjoyment."

There's no choice, it's simply an observation. I also do not value enjoyment for it's own sake. I value life, because I enjoy it. I'd find enjoyment in the midst of what I don't enjoy.

"If this choice is to be based solely on reason, you must have a reason why enjoyment has value. Else, it's not a choice based solely on reason."

What choice? As I said I find enjoyment in life. That means it's an observation and the cause for the enjoyment need not even be known for it to be a valid rational motivator. There is no identifiable cause for enjoyment in general. The causes are numerous, particular and varied. Enjoyment is like temperature, it's always positive.

"Now, you may wish to say, "just because it does." In which case, you have an unconditional value statement - which cannot be know by reason alone. "

Everything can be known by observation and reason. It's apparent that you don't know what reason is. Reason is a logic process used to uncover the truth and logical relationships. It is not an adjective to be applied to motivating causes such as generalized concept of enjoyment.

"So.. does enjoyment have value to you because..., or "just because.""

There's no way to answer the question, because enjoyment in general includes too many things to go over. I find enjoyment in life, that is sufficient rational reason to live. What the particulars are in mind, at any moment are irrelevant, there's still enjoyment in there somewhere. There is nothing at all to be observed when one is not alive.

2,585 posted on 12/20/2006 11:26:46 PM PST by spunkets
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To: spunkets
You are missing the original point.

What choice?

The choice to get out of bed (Q-1) remember?

the cause for the enjoyment need not even be known for it to be a valid rational motivator.

A) Activated pleasure centers do not a logical motivator make.
B) Who's talking about causes? I'm asking why you choose to make your decisions based on enjoyment. What is the logic behind living for enjoyment? If it feels good, do it? You know this is not logic. Surely a rational man who values his sovereignty of will is deeper than that.

Enjoyment is like temperature, it's always positive.

I've got a morphine drip for you.

Everything can be known by observation and reason.

Except perhaps why you got out of be this morning?

What's the real reason - or is it that underneath all the reasoning, there is something else?

2,589 posted on 12/21/2006 12:22:37 AM PST by D-fendr
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