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To: spunkets
The person of all three is the Holy Spirit.

That is a heresy.

I'm afraid that continuing this conversation is pointless. Your theology is deeply flawed. Of course you have the right to believe what you want. But you show no openness to the possibility that you are wrong. Instead, you presume that 2000 years of the Holy Spirit guiding the Magisterium in the unfolding of the deposit of faith entrusted to them by the Apostles is something to be tossed aside in favor of your novel, heretical and unsubstantiated speculation on the nature of God. I hope and pray that God opens your heart and mind to the treasures of the Church, and the right to access them by humility and full communion with Her. If you ever come to realize that you have been grossly mistaken, send me a note and I'll be glad to help you. May the light of Christ shine upon you, and enlighten you.

-A8

2,548 posted on 12/20/2006 5:25:59 PM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: adiaireton8
"you show no openness to the possibility that you are wrong.

You've provided no logical explanation of what a trinity is to be open to. The list of Catholic doctrine regarding the Trinity is a very poor explanation and contains ethereal words that dilute the matter and weight it down with mystery. I am not a mystic.

"Instead, you presume that 2000 years of the Holy Spirit guiding the Magisterium in the unfolding of the deposit of faith entrusted to them by the Apostles is something to be tossed aside in favor of your novel, heretical and unsubstantiated speculation on the nature of God."

The key words is that the Holy Spirit acts as a guide. The Holy Spirit does not sit on the councils. Men do. It is presumptuous to think that only those men that sit on the councils are privy to the Holy Spirit and knowledge of reality. They are not. What they do is up to them and will be based on their own reasoning and analysis.

If I want to know God, I will learn from Him. After all, He did come in person to teach who He was and what He was about. If what the Magisterium says is true, it will be born out by the evidence. What I can say for sure is that the Holy Spirit made sure the evidence and the word of God in the Gospels remained safe and protected. That is His Word. The word of the councils is their word to be compared with God's word.

"novel, heretical and unsubstantiated speculation on the nature of God."

What I said was not speculation and is backed by evidence. If you had a problem with the truth of what I said, you could address it rationally and with evidence. Appeals to authority don't fly here, especially when the authority clearly doesn't know and understand the concepts involved.

The first Canon of the Council of Orange refuted their very first reference of Ezekiel 18. Most took Genesis as a literal happening and focused on disobedience to authority, instead of on the fundamental theft attempted in the parable. With considerable hand waiving they attempted to teach that God's very creation was altered from what it was. The alteration was done by men, not by God, and it was done in the name of the Holy Spirit.

I don't really care if those men call me a heretic. If there was any substance to what they say, they provide the evidence and a rational picture. They most often don't. They simply point, cry heretic and pound the table.

It's been my observation that various councils that claimed the guidance of the Holy Spirit were at odds with each other over the determination of truth. There's only one unique truth in the matter, so at least one of the councils must be wrong. The Holy Spirit simply guides. He does not act through men on His own.

Re: The person of all three is the Holy Spirit.

Apparently you're unaware of what person hood is and how the function of sentient, rational capacity exists in the world. I don't find that amazing, because most don't care to know. That is OK. I do care to know and I do care to know the truth about it and all things to the extent that I'm able. Waht's also apparent is that what the councils stamped as truth and unchangable does not conflict with what I said in essence. The matter is one of ignorance on the part of the councils regarding reality and a failure to acknowledge the possibility that they might err.

"May the light of Christ shine upon you, and enlighten you."

Thanks. I wish the same for you and all.

2,556 posted on 12/20/2006 6:46:41 PM PST by spunkets
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