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To: spunkets
John 1:1 says that Jesus is God, just as Jesus said in John 10:30. Now God's incarnation had a beginning. It was when Jesus was born. That event is also the beginning of the Trinity.

It says that the Word was both God and with God and goes on in v. 14 to speak of the pre-existent Word becoming flesh, i.e., incarnating into the world as a human being. Ergo, Yeshua pre-existed His incarnation.

Indeed, He pops up quite often in the Tanakh (the OT) if one knows where to look: As the Angel (Messenger) of YHVH.

If Yeshua pre-existed His incarnation (as both Isa. 11:1 and Mic. 5:2 attest), then too the Trinity pre-existed Mary. And if Yeshua is the Root of Jesse as well as the Branch of David, then He is Mary's Father as well as her Son (cf. Isa. 9:6). And just as David, who was Yeshua's (fore-)father still called Him Lord (Psa. 110:1, Mat. 22:44f) because Yeshua was his Creator, so does Mary call Him Lord and God.

The Trinity, comprised of Father, Son, and Spirit, of Will, Word, and Breath, pre-existed everything else, including Miryam bat Heli. Miryam had the great honor of bearing God-With-Us into the world, but He created her--she did not create Him.

2,371 posted on 12/20/2006 12:09:39 AM PST by Buggman (http://brit-chadasha.blogspot.com)
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To: Buggman
" It says that the Word was both God and with God and goes on in v. 14 to speak of the pre-existent Word becoming flesh"

The Word is the Holy Spirit. The flesh supports the functions of spirit, just as the soul does outside this world. Before the flesh, there was no trinity.

" If Yeshua pre-existed His incarnation (as both Isa. 11:1 and Mic. 5:2 attest), then too the Trinity pre-existed Mary.

Lets see...

Isaiah 11:1 A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.

There's no posibility of preexisting flesh here. It says' "will come from the stump of Jesse". That's means in the future.

Micah 5:2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times. "

Jesus, born in Bethlehem said in John 10:30, I and the Father are one." That means He is the father and the commonality is the Holy Spirit. As in Isaiah, it says, "will come". Until the coming, there is no trinity.

" The Trinity, comprised of Father, Son, and Spirit, of Will, Word, and Breath, pre-existed everything else"

This is a simple statement. You need to explain it. These things aren't axiomatic and there's no mystery involved here. The distinguishing characteristic of the Son is His body that supported the functions of spirit. In particular, His Spirit was the Holy Spirit. Before the flesh existed, there was no Son. There was only the person of the Father, the Holy Spirit.

"she did not create Him."

As per prior post above, Eve is the mother of all the living. Gen provides for no exceptions. Eve is the great however many times grandmother of Mary, the Mother of God. It takes 2 of the living to create. In the case of Jesus, the flesh, it was God and God's Mother Mary.

2,373 posted on 12/20/2006 12:45:57 AM PST by spunkets
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