LOL, more rationalizations. If you think al Qaida being in Iraq is a good thing, you really don't see the big picture.
Yes, and our policy is to protect Israel, as a friend
We don't have a defense treaty with Israel, and Israel was not under attack.
First, from the Koran, we are infidels
Two billion Christians are infidels, and three billion Chinese are infidels, and 1.5 billion Indians (in India) are infidels, etc. Do you really think they can believe they can destroy infidels?
The limited damage was only due to limited ability
Stupidity, not limited ability. Some six million Jews defeated (repeatedly) 100 million Arabs since 1948. Muslims are lousy fighters. They are good at two things: being stupid and showing off and killing like cowards do. It's the worst combination in the world: stupid and cowardly.
They have money, they have resources, they have everything they need. Limited ability is in their lack of talent and lack of courage. The fact that they blow themselves up is not courage any more than Japanese kamikaze attacks were. It's a sign of stupidity, and necessity, because they can't fight a regular warfare, so they attack those who can't defend themselves.
Why even 9/11 would have been an idiotic stunt had it not taken all those innocent lives. From a an operational point of view, it was a clumsy half-haphazrd execution with no follow up. Instead of spreading out and acting over extended time frame, hitting our economy, they acted foolishly and made a big boom that shocked a lot of people, but only got us angry. Pretty much like the desperate and somewhat provoked attack on pearl Harbor by the Japanese. Anyone who thinks they can destroy America are certifiably lunatics divorced from reality.
There wasn't a commitment to finish the job. I think Bush is determined not to make the same mistakes we made back then
But the mood is the same. The same arguments were used then. To no avail. the people simply lost the will to fight and endless war in a godforsaken part of the world and prop up regimes that have no life of their own but are corrupt and untrustworthy. The American people simply don't see that as worth dying for. I don't blame them. The hardest thing is to reconcile all the dead who didn't have to die for a cause that will not make us safer or better off.
If we quit now like we did back then, there will be massive carnage and Al Qaida will have a national homebase
If they come here we will hunt them down and bomb them and flame them and killed them mercilessly. Recruiting stations will be overflowing. We have enough firepower to steamroll over any country that gives them sanctuary. If it means bombing infrastructures of a dozen countries a week, so be it.
But what makes this argument completely null and void is the porous border this president has allowed to fester and the whole issue of illegal immigrants, of which we now have an army of 12 million. How many of those could be al Qaida illegals? How many of those could be carrying deadly diseases with them because no one stopped them at the border? Does it take an epidemic or national proportions to get Congress and this president to focus on domestic security instead of wasting our young men's and women's lives in a sh*tpot country like Iraq (which we managed to make even more of a sh*tpot), making the world safer for Israel? What is Israel doing for us and our security problems? Nothing!
The surge has a real chance to work. Just today I heard that 25 local Sunni and Shia tribes have agreed to put their differences aside for the moment, and join with the U.S. against Al Qaida. That's great news
Your enthusiasms is understandable, but if you trust Muslims you are a fool. They are doing this for some reason that is entirely in their interest at this moment. Tomorrow they may be helping al Qaida. It depends who's offering more. We have no real friends there. They are all (Israel included) are just using us.
They needed 67 votes and the Democrats decided to stand by their man. 10 Republicans flipped, 0 Dems did
That's my point. They knew all along where each senator stood. But they went through the whole kangaroo process knowing that there will be no conviction. It was just so they can say "we tried." No president will be impeached over something like this. It would create partisan tit-for-tat and make the life of Congress a living hell. Our fat and dumb politicians would not want that, trust me. The impeachment is reserved for almost improbable but possible crimes such as treason or bribery from a foreign country, etc. That would get any president impeached in a heartbeat.
As for Nixon, the case was much more clear cut. The tapes were damaging beyond repair. Nixon also lost Spiro Agnew (a Greek-American Vice President but strangely enough Episcopalian), who resigned because of charged of tax evasion, which happened in the middle of the Watergate scandal. Anybody who was associated with the Nixon White House was either arrested or resigned and wanted nothing to do with it, so the Republican reaction was not a surprise.
But that isn't the case anymore. Now, in order to kill hundreds of thousands of people, one only needs a handful of men acting under cover
One more reason we need to stop illegal immigration yesterday! But dear old GW is doing nothing of the sort, and neither is our Congress. We are still concerned with political correctness and protecting the untouchable capitalist profit-based system that hires illegals.
They will smuggle in WMDs and detonate them in major cities
Again, we need to close our borders and kick out those who are not citizens of this country and are here illegally. Their children, born here, can come and ask for American citizenship when they turn 18. Sacrificing our men and women in Iraq will not stop them from slipping through our porous borders.
Being completely helpless to fight a ragtag army of bandits does very little for our image abroad as a superpower. A giant who's not smart enough to watch his back and just keeps swatting thin air earns very little respect.
I suspect he knew the inspections would be a sham, and they were.
They were not a sham, they were actually true! Everything they said turned out to be true and everything Bush said turned out to be a lie. Now, our multibillion-dollar three-letter agencies are either completely incompetent and can't get their story straight or the top leadership was lying. I think the three-letter agencies are not incompetent.
Thank God Bush did not accept the view that we need a permission slip from a thoroughly corrupt organization such as the UN
The UN doesn't operate like that. The General Assembly has zero power. That's' where most of your third-world banana republic are seated. It is only the Security Council that has the executive and binding power. It is made up of WWII allies, US, UK, France, and Russia. During Nixon, China was added as a permanent member. There are also rotating countries which sit in the SC and have a vote. But permanent members have a veto power.
That SC is where the US was in the position to help Israel the most by using the veto. Not that Israel really obeys any of the UN resolutions; I guess it's that "special relationship" we have with them. So, the UN is not all that bad when it serves our purposes. It's only when we don't get our way that we throw a tantrum and wan to shut down the UN. Nut when it comes to using UN infrastructure to allow Israel unimpeded freedom then we don't mind the "thoroughly corrupt" organization. Besides, the chairman is always our pick. If we don't like him, we fire him and pick another. "It's good to be a king" (from the History of the World Part I with and by Mel Brooks).
But, do you really truly think that the SC votes based on something as esoteric as "evidence"? No way. They vote based on politics
That's a standard accusation, but our evidence was garbage. It was an insult to intelligence.
Enough anthrax to kill 100 million people can be stored in a single semi-trailer. With all the notice that Saddam had, it could be anywhere, and we may never find it
Anthrax is a very poor biological weapon. That's why no country uses it. Smallpox would be a much more dangerous threat, and we are not out of danger because we have porous borders, so who knows what is being brought into the country without our knowledge. But we must be politically correct and not hurt poor illegal immigrants' feelings.
Saddam's real weapons were his poison gas bombs he used on Kurds and Iranians (and vice versa). But he had no long range delivery means, and Israelis have gas masks and adequate anti-aricfrat defenses. Where was the urgency?
For months now, with no end in sight, Bush has been completely neutered as a President with his polls so low
He's a lame duck President. What does he care about the polls? he already ruined last year's elections for his own Party, so if anything his own base is abandoning him because he is a walking disaster. he can't speak, he is cocky, pretty much p&ssing people off with his "I don't care' attitude." It runs in his family. His father alienated a large number of voters and gave republican presidency to the likes of Clinton with his famous "Read my lips. No new taxes." He lied. Like father like son. And then they can't understand why the people get sick of them. People voted for the third party candidate (Ross Perot) just not to vote Republican in 1992.
So, Saddam the dictator just shut down production of WMDs out of the goodness of his heart?
I wouldn't know where to begin speculating on his motives, least of all would be goodness of his heart. Fact is, we were wrong about him on just about every account.
I suppose one man's terrorists are another man's freedom fighters. I know where you stand regarding the Islamic Arabs and Israeli Jews. :)
Jewish terroirsts killed innocent people, just as any terrorist group does. To me there are no freedom fighters among terrorists. Read up on the massacre by Irgun-Lehi gangs at Deir Yassin in 1948 under the British rule. Some 120 civlians of all ages were killed. This was in retaliation for the killing of 77 Jewish health care workers by the Arabs. My point was not to blame only one side, but the Arans were not resorting to terror tactics against the British who were legally there with a mandate. Inter Jewish-Arab skirmishes existed for a long time, but the Jewish groups were particularly bent on assassinations of British civilian and military leaders and represented organized terroirsts organizations, which know names, presidents or commanders, etc.
Is the remedy for that to cut and run in Iraq now?
You are young enough to be at the tail end of draft. There is your chance to put your foot where your mouth is. Join the military, give your country three years of your life, and fight for what you believe in. What's stopping you?
I think we would be doing a better job of making the world safer for us instead of some and going hard after any who attempt to hurt us, then bleeding without end in sight in some sh&t-pot country we managed to take apart and can't put together.
Al Qaida existing anywhere is a bad thing. But, it is better that they are fighting and dying over there than over here.
We don't have a defense treaty with Israel, and Israel was not under attack.
What do you call multiple suicide bomb attacks? But as I said earlier, I don't think Israel was a PRINCIPLE reason that we went into Iraq.
Two billion Christians are infidels, and three billion Chinese are infidels, and 1.5 billion Indians (in India) are infidels, etc. Do you really think they can believe they can destroy infidels?
Yes, absolutely, by the grace of Allah. The whole thing is based on "faith". Allah will deliver their enemies into their hands. I didn't say it wasn't crazy, but that's what I think they believe.
Stupidity, not limited ability. Some six million Jews defeated (repeatedly) 100 million Arabs since 1948. Muslims are lousy fighters.
I agree with stupid and cowardly. Man for man, the motivation to commit murder has to be much less than the motivation to NOT BE murdered. Plus, I think we gave the Jews some nifty toys to play with, but I can't remember when that actually began.
Anyone who thinks they can destroy America are certifiably lunatics divorced from reality.
Yes, these are the people who proudly strap suicide belts to their children and send them into crowds.
FK: "There wasn't a commitment to finish the job. I think Bush is determined not to make the same mistakes we made back then."
But the mood is the same. The same arguments were used then. To no avail. the people simply lost the will to fight and endless war in a godforsaken part of the world and prop up regimes that have no life of their own but are corrupt and untrustworthy.
The mood might be the same right now, but at least we have the "benefit" of the Vietnam experience today. Americans hate losing now more than ever. If the surge really produces some positive results (good signs so far), then I think that mood could greatly change, and change quickly. I think the American people are more starved for good news, than starved to quit today.
We have enough firepower to steamroll over any country that gives them sanctuary. If it means bombing infrastructures of a dozen countries a week, so be it.
Well, if we quit now, that country would be Iraq. Iran would move right in along side Al Qaida and they would rule together. IOW, by surrendering now we will just have to go back later and start all over again, being forced to kill many many more civilians.
But what makes this argument completely null and void is the porous border this president has allowed to fester and the whole issue of illegal immigrants, of which we now have an army of 12 million. How many of those could be al Qaida illegals?
Now THERE we are simpatico my friend. :) I am furious with Bush for his refusal to protect the border, and policy of making it worse with his amnesty plan. I am at a loss to explain why he is doing this.
Does it take an epidemic of national proportions to get Congress and this president to focus on domestic security ...
Unfortunately, apparently. And it will happen.
What is Israel doing for us and our security problems? Nothing!
I don't know about that. They are our eyes and ears over there, I'll bet we get a lot of intelligence from them that nobody ever hears about. Having a stable friend in Iraq will make it all the better.
Your enthusiasms is understandable, but if you trust Muslims you are a fool. They are doing this for some reason that is entirely in their interest at this moment. Tomorrow they may be helping al Qaida. It depends who's offering more.
We don't need to trust them, we'll see what they deliver. I have to believe that there are some Iraqis who can read the writing on the wall. If we leave now, many more of them and their families will die. I have to think there is a sizable number who don't want that. After all, they voted.
But they went through the whole kangaroo process knowing that there will be no conviction. It was just so they can say "we tried." No president will be impeached over something like this.
If Clinton had pulled out a pistol and shot dead a poor, elderly, disabled, gay, black woman on live global television, the Dems would have voted to acquit, saying that either the tape was doctored or that it was a Clinton double, or that it didn't matter because he was such a great president. The House Repubs really did try in good faith, but the Senate Repubs didn't really try because the trial itself was a sham. Had they done a real trial and still lost, then I could live with that.
One more reason we need to stop illegal immigration yesterday! But dear old GW is doing nothing of the sort, and neither is our Congress.
I don't know what else Congress can do. They passed the bill for the fence, and then appropriated the money to build it. I think the money is still sitting there waiting to be used, but Bush refuses. Then, the Repubs in Congress blocked the amnesty bill, thank God.
Again, we need to close our borders and kick out those who are not citizens of this country and are here illegally.
I didn't know if you were for that too, and I'm still with you.
They were not a sham, they were actually true! Everything they said turned out to be true and everything Bush said turned out to be a lie. Now, our multibillion-dollar three-letter agencies are either completely incompetent and can't get their story straight or the top leadership was lying. I think the three-letter agencies are not incompetent.
CIA said "Slam Dunk". That is indisputable. The inspections were not true, they were inconclusive because they were not meaningfully completed. Saddam refused to cooperate, to his doom. As I said before, there were "facts" flying around on all sides. You haven't explained to me why Bush is a liar because he didn't follow the facts that you liked.
[The UN SC] is made up of WWII allies, US, UK, France, and Russia. During Nixon, China was added as a permanent member. There are also rotating countries which sit in the SC and have a vote. But permanent members have a veto power.
I know all the money votes are in the SC. But 9 votes are needed to pass anything. Of the permanent members I only count ONE ally (UK). France has not been a friend in years, and Russia and China love to see America embarrassed at any opportunity. We can't count on them for anything, and any one of them has veto power. That is a permission slip from our rivals against interest. If Hillary gets in she will send "citizen statesman" Bill along with whoever is stupid enough to accept the SOS job under Hillary (just as a tag-along) to kiss rings at the UN and look good for the cameras, all to the detriment of American national interests.
Not that Israel really obeys any of the UN resolutions; I guess it's that "special relationship" we have with them. So, the UN is not all that bad when it serves our purposes.
If Israel followed every UN resolution they would all be dead today. The majority of members hate Israel and would be just fine if they were exterminated. So, the UN is worse than "that bad". They lose points for bringing the resolutions in the first place.
Saddam's real weapons were his poison gas bombs he used on Kurds and Iranians (and vice versa). But he had no long range delivery means, and Israelis have gas masks and adequate anti-aricfrat defenses. Where was the urgency?
Israeli military has gas masks but not a great number of civilians. Some did, but I've never seen a street shot showing most civilians going through their days carrying gas masks. Terrorists could smuggle in and deploy the gas in crowded areas and kill thousands at a time. That was possible at any time. The timing of when we went in was a great combination of things.
He's a lame duck President. What does he care about the polls?
Plenty. Low numbers will hurt the party in general, as you note about '06, so if it happens again in '08, he will be blamed by Republicans for many years to come. No one wants that.
His father alienated a large number of voters and gave republican presidency to the likes of Clinton with his famous "Read my lips. No new taxes." He lied.
I'll give you that one, except for the lying. B41 DID break a solemn promise and paid the price for it. It would only be a lie if B41 fully intended to later raise taxes when he made the promise. I don't think that happened. And B43 did not manufacture evidence to take the country to war under false pretenses. That would be treasonous. Bush may not be a lot of things, but I think he is a patriot. We all saw how 9/11 affected him. Those were not crocodile tears. He's not that good. :)
I think we would be doing a better job of making the world safer for us instead of some and going hard after any who attempt to hurt us, then bleeding without end in sight in some sh&t-pot country we managed to take apart and can't put together.
Then you see it as a matter of crime and not war. That is the key distinction. If it is crime, then we sit back and wait to get hit, and then try to go out and find who did it. If it is war, then we do whatever it takes to kill the enemy BEFORE they hit. Clinton did the former and Bush did the latter.