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To: Forest Keeper; HarleyD; .30Carbine

I am brekaing up this thread into smaller pieces as it is becomming too long. I bedlieve it is easier to follow and anwer that way.

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I suppose it only follows that if man determines his own salvation, through cooperation, then the same would be true for sanctification, under your view.

Lack of cooperation leads to damnation by our fallen nature as we will follow evil. Those who cooperate with God will not be lost; those who don't will. We do not determine, but we do participate in our process of sanctification. God doesn't lead us astray, but in order for God to lead us we must follow Him. Otherwise it's not being led but dragged.

While God never loses a true believer (true in scripture but not in Apostolic theology), He also actively prevents any such person from falling far enough away to cost him his salvation. That is the part you always conveniently leave out.

It's left out because it's not part of the faith. Your theology is based on +Paul's own gospel. Ours is based on the whole Bible. I say that not to disparage +Paul but because it wasn't taught by any other Apostle. Nor the OT.

I consider everything including and in between "Dear Heavenly Father" and "Amen" to be part of prayer.

Yes, it is, and it is also a supplication (hear me O Lord!)because what follows is not "So, how's is heaveny life treating you..." but something to the effect "grant my such and such health and success..." or "thank you for having provided me and my family with blesisngs..."  It's begging.

I think that prayer, as a part of worship, should include praise and thanksgiving. Perhaps we see the following differently:

1 Thess 5:16-18 : 16 Be joyful always; 17 pray continually; 18 give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus.

God should always be praised.  Even when bad things happen to us. They happen to us not because of God but because of the corruption our sin brought to the world.

The Orthodox are encouraged to contstantly pray the Jesus Prayer "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me the sinner." Notice here the definite articlre. It is there for a reason. We believe that continual prayer is the best way to avoid evil. We believe that those who pray do not sin while they pray (in ernest), as they are in communion (not "communication") with God. That communion is a siritual experience and not "communication." It is...

the spiritual ascent into the Divine abyss where words fall silent, where reason fades, where all human knowledge and comprehension cease, where God is. It is not by speculative knowledge but in the depths of prayerful silence that the soul can encounter God, Who is ‘beyond everything’ and Who reveals Himself to her as in-comprehensible, in-accessible, in-visible, yet at the same time as living and close to her - as God the Person.  [Archbishop Alfeyev Introduction to Orthodox Dogma and Spirituality, Catechism of the Russian Orthodox Church

So what you call "communication" we consider an experience where human reason is left behind, where words fall silent and mind ceases to comprehend as our spirit ascends to God.  

15,787 posted on 06/27/2007 7:40:31 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; HarleyD; .30Carbine
It's left out because it's not part of the faith. Your theology is based on +Paul's own gospel. Ours is based on the whole Bible. I say that not to disparage +Paul but because it wasn't taught by any other Apostle. Nor the OT.

It sure seems to me that you are disparaging Paul when you say that his Biblical teachings are not part of the faith. :)

God should always be praised. Even when bad things happen to us. They happen to us not because of God but because of the corruption our sin brought to the world.

Yes, God should always be praised, even when things go badly. However, I don't think we can say that everything we perceive as bad is always caused by sin in the world. For example, I have been on job interviews before and really prayed hard to get the job. When it didn't happen, I experienced that as something bad. But then, one time a month later a much better job came along that I wouldn't have even applied for had I taken the first job. It all worked out for the best for me.

So what you call "communication" we consider an experience where human reason is left behind, where words fall silent and mind ceases to comprehend as our spirit ascends to God.

That does sound pretty complicated. :)

15,794 posted on 06/28/2007 4:13:21 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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