OK, then my mistake and I'm sorry.
We as Catholics have a wide latitude in reading the Scriptures. I have tried to explain this ...
I remember. I think you said something along the lines that there were really only a few specific verses that MUST be read as "x". I countered that those readings, though, necessarily affect the interpretation of many other verses, thus affecting their "allowed" interpretations indirectly. But the bigger issue is the decrees by Councils and Popes. Those decrees affect MANY verses all at the same time.
Quick example, while I'm sure there is no direct edict on how to read Rom. 3:23, you are not free to interpret it as you wish because it must comply with the dogma (doctrine?) that Mary was sinless. Another example would be all the abortion verses. Now YOU and I would fully agree on those, but the same issue arises. I do know that on the little stuff good Catholics are free to take very different stands. I just don't see a lot of wiggle room on anything of great importance. AND, that is a principle that I see Catholicism standing on! So, I don't understand how one can say simultaneously that Catholicism is good because it is a monolithic faith of unity and surety, and yet Catholicism is also good because you are allowed to freely read the Bible with a wide latitude. To me, those conflict.
But in any event, the topic we were discussing was whether the Holy Spirit leads people to read the Bible, and to what level reading the Bible is helpful to the Christian. I simply believe that the Holy Spirit leads all believers to come closer to Him. One of a few different ways to do that is by learning His word. And, there might be a wide scale on the usefulness of reading scriptures to different believers, but I think that the more faith one has, the more useful they are. We don't need to flash a library card to get into Heaven, but I can report that learning God's word has made a tremendous difference in my life.
Also, I do not find where the Bible says that the Spirit leads individuals, even Roman Catholics, to understand the Bible SEPERATELY from the community.
When you first said "community" I took that to mean RCC, and that's how it all started (yada yada). If you mean community of all believers, then I would agree with you. If we took all the things that you, I, the Orthodox, and anyone else we all agree are Christians, all believe in, then the Spirit would not lead anyone to believe outside of THAT. Are we getting better? :)
There is a huge difference in "taking in God's Word" and fully understanding every verse to the point of disagreeing with what the Church teaches.
I do disagree with much of the theology of the Roman Catholic Church, but I don't claim to have any sort of global understanding of every verse. Not even close.
Faith comes from HEARING the Word proclaimed - seeing it in action, not from reading.
I would say that faith itself is a gift of God via grace, but my faith has certainly grown by witnessing the word in action by others. There can be no doubt. We are all commanded to "walk the walk" and live an outward faith as well as have it inside. By "HEARING" do you mean watching others act in every day life? I thought you meant oral preaching, and didn't understand how that was so different from reading the same thing, just on the level of the "word" itself.
Of course. Interpretation of such things as the Trinity and the Eucharist are based on the "proper" understanding of Scriptures. Defending EITHER dogma depends on reading the Bible a certain way - a way that is taught OUTSIDE of the Bible, whether it be oral preaching, liturgical worship, daily prayer, or the teachings of the Church that followed the Apostles. Now, the question becomes "what is the 'proper' interpretation and where do we find it?" I contend we find that in the Catholic Church. You contend that the "spirit" leads you one way and simultaneously, the "spirit" leads another Christian in the opposite direction.
I just don't see a lot of wiggle room on anything of great importance.
You must have forgotten our discussions on free will and grace...
But in any event, the topic we were discussing was whether the Holy Spirit leads people to read the Bible, and to what level reading the Bible is helpful to the Christian.
You are changing your argument, FK. You are taking up a "new" argument that I will not disagree with. Of course the Spirit leads people to read the Bible and of course the Bible is helpful to Christians. That is not debated here, although now you are trying to make that as your point of discussion. Your previous argument was that the Spirit leads people to understand the Bible and God's Word, with or without the Church's aid - and as people read the Bible, they grow in holiness, which enables them to understand the book that much more. That is what this discussion was about. If the original topic was as you have laid it out, I never would have argued with it!!! How could I?
I do disagree with much of the theology of the Roman Catholic Church, but I don't claim to have any sort of global understanding of every verse. Not even close.
So understanding your own falliblity, what argument are you going to show me that you are more knowledgeable then 2000 years worth of preaching and meditating on the Word of God? Why are you relying on your own human abilities to determine what the Word of God means? And saying that the Spirit leads you to understand the Bible's individual verses is obviously a false argument, because you have admitted that you do not have a global understanding of the Scriptures, and you have also admitted that you have been wrong before. Your being right on verses, again, does not depend on your personal holiness, which returns us to your initial mistaken argument, but on your interpretations as they are in line with the "pillar and foundation of the truth"
By the way, we have already discussed Romans 3. Interpretation of it does not depend on anything to do with Mary, but with common sense and a cursory reading of the Psalms... It is you that is ignoring the Word of God, now The Bible over and over again speaks of righteous people. We must view Romans 3 with that in mind, unless you want to say that the Bible contradicts itself.
Regards