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To: Mad Dawg; kosta50
But, uh [FK:] "[Being born again] was not an independent act, apart from what Jesus did on the cross. It was intricately associated with it. It was a "package deal". :)"

(did you mean "intimately" or "intricately" -- or both) but in general: YEAH THAT!

I suppose to one who is ultimately saved, it is both. :)

Good Friday is one act. It is not limited to the time and space of Good Friday 33 AD. I say "re" only because of the pesky time thing that I find myself in. IT's not REALLY a "re". It's just my temporality which makes a distinction between good Friday and last night's altar call.

Yes, there might be some occurrence vs. effect stuff in there too? I know I'm not comfortable in being able to accurately report what the Catholic view is on this yet.

In other news I want to resurrect the sidebar about how we're like and how we're different (or should be) from Islam, if you remember it.

I remember seeing some discussion on it, but I didn't participate that much because I don't really know much about Islam. I remember Islam being a faith wholly separate from Christianity because they do not recognize Christ as Lord, Savior, or God. To me, that's a "There you go"...

One interesting thing I remember was that I wondered aloud whether "fundamentalist" Protestants like me were really more like the moderate Muslims or the terrorists. I got some agreement for the latter, actually, (and I'm speaking of only on an intellectual plane, here). I would tend to agree with this in terms of following the respective texts. IOW, I thought it more likely that the moderate Muslims, who DON'T want to kill us, are more like the cafeteria Catholics and Southern Baptists that we both wish there were fewer of. That remains a very scary thought to me. :) I think Kosta was in on this part, but I'm not positive.

Frankly, I can't think of much of the FAITH of Islam that I would want to emulate, since, as is my understanding, most of the "nice" stuff really should only be directed to other Muslims according to their sacred texts.

15,728 posted on 06/23/2007 3:01:08 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper
I thought it more likely that the moderate Muslims, who DON'T want to kill us, are more like the cafeteria Catholics and Southern Baptists that we both wish there were fewer of.  I think Kosta was in on this part, but I'm not positive.

Probably. BTW, I am responding only to you since MadDawg asked me long ago not to post to him. First, let me say that there is no such thing as a "moderate Muslim." There is nothing moderate about Islam, so one cannot be a true Muslim and be moderate. The two are mutually exclusive.

The idea that there are "moderate" Muslims is part of what is known as taqqia or deception Muslims are allowed to use when dealing with the non-Muslim world.

15,730 posted on 06/23/2007 6:43:57 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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