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To: jo kus
Practically speaking, the fact that leadership exists and was inititiated by the Christ, we can presume that He had a good reason.

I believe in the validity of Chrisitan leadership.

I simply don't believe that we can count on such leadership to be infallible, ... as evidenced by Judas ... and not a few Catholic priests/popes and Protestant ministers.

The scriptures, on the other hand, are infallible ... and provide all that is necessary for the salvation of our souls.

And the gospel once given (by Paul, Peter, Matthew, John, etc.) is resident most assuredly in the scriptures. Even an Apostle once appointed ... can change his tune (witness Judas) ... so appointment really doesn’t assure veracity of the message.

I heartedly disagree. How would YOU know 2000 years later that John, Peter, Paul, etc. were actual valid writings and not fraud or that the Gnostic Gospels were real?


It is the consensus of the Church that the writings on the Old and New Testaments are ordained of God as scripture. It is one of the things that we all agree upon.

I believe in everything that we all agree on.

15,705 posted on 06/20/2007 8:27:28 PM PDT by Quester
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To: Quester
I simply don't believe that we can count on such leadership to be infallible, ... as evidenced by Judas ... and not a few Catholic priests/popes and Protestant ministers.

The scriptures, on the other hand, are infallible ... and provide all that is necessary for the salvation of our souls.

Can you tell me where the Bible makes the statement that its individual components are infallible??? I think that is a presumption that forgets that it comes from the infallible CHURCH.

On to another subject (since this will not be resolved, no doubt, even though it is INSTRUMENTAL on our differences), I would like to return back to your quote of 1 Cor 2:14-15 that you posted and I believe you take out of context (many Protestants believe this says something it doesn't and use it over and over).

I think if you read the first two chapters more carefully, you will find that Paul is saying that the spiritual person will judge the Gospel of the CROSS on something that is not visible, as a natural person would. You see, the Jews and Greeks who used their rational thought OR who believed in Bible alone did not buy the Gospel of the Cross. Paul talks about the PARADOX of the Cross: HOW does God's Wisdom work through the apparent defeat of Jesus on the Cross? To the Jews and Greeks who used their natural reasoning, it was foolish. To those who were spiritual (guided by the Spirit that transcends their own reason), they were able to judge the Gospel as from God.

THIS is the meaning of Paul, not that the "spiritual" man will understand the entire Bible led by the Spirit of God without any other help! I believe your interpretation goes way beyond what is meant by Paul, who continues in Chapter 3 with feeding the infant Christian on milk and so forth.

It is the consensus of the Church that the writings on the Old and New Testaments are ordained of God as scripture. It is one of the things that we all agree upon.

Yes, the Church does. And now, WHY do you believe that? Because you are part of the Church or because it happens to agree with what you already believe? Do you believe because the Church says so (and it is infallible - if not, she could be wrong about the Bible) or because your rational of the moment tells you that?

That is the question...

Regards

15,712 posted on 06/21/2007 8:56:28 AM PDT by jo kus (Humility is present when one debases oneself without being obliged to do so- St.Chrysostom; Phil 2:8)
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