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To: Quester; Forest Keeper
I wrote : We are told to test the truth - when speaking of traveling teachers where we DON'T know who appointed them.

You wrote : The scriptures don’t make that qualification.

??? Sure it does! Quite often. What's wrong with the verse you used?

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Actually, the later writings of the NT also have such qualifications. John, Jude, Peter, Colossians and the Pastorals all speak of false teachers. Even Thessalonians and Corinthians and Galatians speak of such men. We test the veracity of their claim by the Gospel once given. That is how we know a false teacher - one who brings a different gospel, as Paul says in Gal 1:10.

What the early community was expected to do was to RETAIN what was once given by Paul and the other Apostles and use that as a reference to guard against traveling teachers who might distort the good News. When their teachings differed from the Apostles, when their fruit was noted, the community knew they were being given a false gospel. Again, look at Gal 1:10. Paul claims that the Gospel HE gave is from God. He doesn't say "whatever you guys come up with when you read the Scriptures". He says the "traditions once given". That does not bode well for trying to figure out God's teachings alone with your bible in your lap "guided by the 'spirit'".

We know who was duly appointed by the Apostles because the Scriptures themselves say that these apostles appointed successors, such as Timothy and Titus. Elders were left in the each community. We have no indication that Christian communities were left WITHOUT a successor or leader appointed by men sent by the Apostles or the Apostles themselves. It is pure fantasy to think that the individual was left without a guide in his community and that Sola Scriptura existed anywhere in Christianity during this time.

Later Christian writers verify this, such as Irenaeus, who says that WE KNOW which is the correct Gospel (contra Gnostics) BECAUSE of the duly appointed successors of the Apostles. He even goes on to state the successors of the Bishop of Rome, using this as proof vs. the Gnostic's who could not show such a trace of succession back to the Apostles.

Regards

15,698 posted on 06/20/2007 5:16:51 AM PDT by jo kus (Humility is present when one debases oneself without being obliged to do so- St.Chrysostom; Phil 2:8)
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To: jo kus; Forest Keeper
You wrote : We are told to test the truth - when speaking of traveling teachers where we DON'T know who appointed them.

I wrote : The scriptures don’t make that qualification.

You wrote : ??? Sure it does! Quite often. What's wrong with the verse you used?
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Actually, the later writings of the NT also have such qualifications. John, Jude, Peter, Colossians and the Pastorals all speak of false teachers. Even Thessalonians and Corinthians and Galatians speak of such men. We test the veracity of their claim by the Gospel once given. That is how we know a false teacher - one who brings a different gospel, as Paul says in Gal 1:10.


My point is that such testing of a claimed gospel message was not reserved only to those appointments were in question. Such testing was commanded for all such presentations, no matter who gave it, known to be appointed or not.

In that passage you cite (i.e. Galatians 1) ... Paul says that even his message should be tested against (as you so correctly say) ... ”the Gospel once given.”
Galatians 1: 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

As we said before, so say I now again, If any preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
What the early community was expected to do was to RETAIN what was once given by Paul and the other Apostles and use that as a reference to guard against traveling teachers who might distort the good News. When their teachings differed from the Apostles, when their fruit was noted, the community knew they were being given a false gospel. Again, look at Gal 1:10. Paul claims that the Gospel HE gave is from God. He doesn't say "whatever you guys come up with when you read the Scriptures". He says the "traditions once given". That does not bode well for trying to figure out God's teachings alone with your bible in your lap "guided by the 'spirit'".

And the gospel once given (by Paul, Peter, Matthew, John, etc.) is resident most assuredly in the scriptures. Even an Apostle once appointed ... can change his tune (witness Judas) ... so appointment really doesn’t assure veracity of the message.

15,701 posted on 06/20/2007 8:45:20 AM PDT by Quester
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