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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50
+Paul never clearly says Christ is God. He says Christ is an "image" of God (but so are we as well!).
Paul says it LOTS of times without reference to "image":

The Scriptures are full of references to God and Messiah being One. I've been reading John 14 lately, in various versions (pick any one), and seeing in this Gospel account of Christ's Own Words (from the Father: the Father's Very Word) perfect pictures of the Trinity - the One God Who Reveals and Joins Himself to us in Three Forms, amen.

7"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."

8Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."

9Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

10"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

11"Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.

12"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

13"Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14"If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

15"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

16"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

18"I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

19"After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also.

20"In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

21"He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."

22Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, "Lord, what then has happened that You are going to disclose Yourself to us and not to the world?"

23Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

24"He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me.

25"These things I have spoken to you while abiding with you.

26"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.


15,608 posted on 06/08/2007 3:30:38 AM PDT by .30Carbine (Sacrifice is not always simple...but let it always be glorious, holy, and good, amen.)
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To: .30Carbine; Forest Keeper
The Scriptures are full of references to God and Messiah being One. I've been reading John 14

We were talking about +Paul, not +John. John's Gospel was written way, way after +Paul's Epistles, at the end of the 1st century by someone who knew his theology (and Greek) quite well (and not very likely an illiterate fisherman from Galilee), and when Christianity was no longer a Jewish sect of +Paul's time, but a separate religion of the Gentiles.

15,610 posted on 06/08/2007 5:31:44 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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