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To: Blogger
The translation I use routinely is Douay-Rheims. It has the complete Canon, is older than King James in historical origin, and word-by-word follows the Jerome's Vulgate.

King James is not all bad, it is certainly miles ahead of the modern Micky Mouse translations (of which the New King James takes the cake). Yet the systematic mistranslation of "priest", as well as a few other features that represent nothing but Protestant spin, make it ultimately harmful.

In making textual arguments I use Unbound Bible which contains most truncated translations, the Septuagint, the New Testament originals, and the Hebrew Old Testament. I often include King James in my search, first because it is often dispositive for the Protestant opponent and rarely disagrees with Douay, and secondly, to grow my collection of KJV abnormalities.

The verse in Timothy is translated ELDER, and such translation makes perfect sense since the verse reads 1 Timothy 5
1Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father;

In 1 Tim 5 it is possible to translate "elder" as the reference is to age. Douay has it "ancient". If KJV had not made abundant references to "elder" meaning "priest", it would have been an appropriate choice. However, in 4:14 the reference is made to the sacramental function of the priest, yet King James leaves it untranslated: "presbytery". Would it have killed them to say "priest", the established word that the reformers themselves would use describing Catholic ordinations?

The reference to "forbidding to marry and eat meat" is criticism of the gnostics; if your intention is to make reference to the Catholic practices, do not forget that St. Paul recommended celibacy for priests.

1,560 posted on 12/15/2006 3:04:16 PM PST by annalex
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To: annalex
St. Paul recommended celibacy for priests.

I don't recall that Paul uses the word for priest in that scripture....

1,568 posted on 12/15/2006 3:51:07 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: annalex

King James was by all intents a Catholic in Anglican clothes. He was HIGHLY SYMPATHETIC to Catholicism. His mother was killed over it. Politically, he had to be Protestant. But in his heart, he was Catholic - as were some of his children. Of course, one needed jump on the Protestants too hard for making the political situation so strict. Bloody Mary wasn't exactly the nicest person to live through - and while Elizabeth killed as many people in her reign as Mary did - Elizabeth's reign was far longer so on average hers was much less bloody.

Anyway, back to Mickey Mouse Translations. My least favorite is the NIV. It's only redeeming value is that it is very readable and makes Paul's letter seem like actual letters. But as a translation, it is not very good.

KJV is my favorite. I grew up on it. It hasn't always used the best interpretation of certain words; but I haven't seen it resort to making up meanings. Any "mistakes" referred to before were likely printing errors or word order or something to the effect of the sinful Bible - talk about an oops.

The KJV Committee didn't avoid Priest at all. They just didn't translate presbuteros as priest. Again, another quite legitimate translation. I do not see in my lexicons where presbuteros ever means priest. Just don't. I looked it up after you mentioned it.

But, there are plenty of times where priests are referred to in the KJV in both testaments. We are even called priests. So, I don't really see an concerted effort to ban mentioning priests - especially when I can't find presbuteros meaning priest at all. Maybe another lexicon has priest as a possible meaning. Mine doesn't.

1 Timothy 4 isn't really the function of a priest. Also the word was presbuterion. Per Strongs: Presbuterion Neuter of a presumed derivative of presbuteros; the order of elders, i.e. (specially), Israelite Sanhedrin or Christian "presbytery."


The NT Greek Lexicon says it is body of elders, presbytery, senate, council
of the Jewish elders
of the elders of any body (assembly) of Christians and that it is presumed to derive from presbuteros which means:
elder, of age,
the elder of two people
advanced in life, an elder, a senior
forefathers
a term of rank or office
among the Jews
members of the great council or Sanhedrin (because in early times the rulers of the people, judges, etc., were selected from elderly men)
of those who in separate cities managed public affairs and administered justice
among the Christians, those who presided over the assemblies (or churches) The NT uses the term bishop, elders, and presbyters interchangeably
the twenty four members of the heavenly Sanhedrin or court seated on thrones around the throne of God

Do you have any lexicons that actually translate it priest. I've been looking for them. I do not see any .


1,579 posted on 12/15/2006 8:39:49 PM PST by Blogger
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To: annalex

Nevermind. I see where they are getting it from. Many Catholic sites mention that ETYMOLOGICALLY Priest derives from Prester which derives from Presbyter which comes from Presbuteros. At least I understand where they are coming from now. But I still don't see any lexicon which actually says that Priest is one of the meanings of presbuteros.


1,581 posted on 12/15/2006 8:48:32 PM PST by Blogger
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