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To: Mad Dawg; jo kus
I think this is partly a terminology problem. I think we should retire to committee and come up with an acceptable term for more or less Calvinist, "Bible-believing" Protestant type personnel. That should take only about 6 months.

Sounds like a good idea. My contribution to defining a generic Bible-believing Protestant would include that as absolute minimums, such a person must hold to Sola Scriptura and at least 3 points of Calvinism. A Calvinist would have to hold to 4. (I happen to be a 5-pointer.)

If I were arguing for the Prots I'd say,"Have you heard of the Warren court?"

I was going to say that, but you're way ahead of me. :)

On a more group dynamic level I also thought we owed "our" people NOT our own particular notions of how things should be but their church's notions. They hadn't signed up in the Church of Mad Dawg but in the Episcopal Church. What was it about the temptation to lay MY trip on them and why would I not be content with the sermon as a chance to inflict my views on them?

Maybe "pastoral privilege" should be directly related to accountability. Our pastor knows that if he starts spouting nonsense he is out on his butt! :) So, that actually gives him some leeway, in my view, because he is otherwise free to say whatever he wants. In fact, over the last several months he has been taking a very Calvinist tack. He just skips the icky parts. He's been quoting Calvinist thinkers all over the place, without identifying them as such, and I'M just pleased as punch. :) If I was a committed Arminian I probably wouldn't be so happy, but I think this subtlety is actually going over most people's heads in my congregation. Unfortunately! :)

15,536 posted on 06/05/2007 5:31:08 PM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper
"pastoral privilege"

Here is where I get really self-righteous. That stuff irritates me. The only pastoral privilege I'd holds to is the undisputed right to a nap Sunday afternoon.

The privilege is to serve God's people. It used to just amaze me. I mean I get thrilled when I pull a lamb -- and once, this is cool, I had one that wasn't breathing, tongue blue and lolling out. I held it so that I knew the airway was open and breathed into its mouth - no lip-lock necessary, D.G., and watches as its tongue turned pink and then finally it started breathing - and ten minutes later was on the teat doing what comes naturally.

YES I feel privileged to speak the words of life, to be given a chance to breathe into somebody's heart. And all this stuff that we argue about is really for much later on. The fire-starter is just,"He loves you, you really don't deserve it at ALL, but He loves you and means to save you into a salvation beyond your wildest dreams!"

Wow! And they used to pay me to do that. Heck, I'd pay them for the chance!

15,537 posted on 06/05/2007 5:48:44 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Some of us like to hink of mania as a lifestyle choice....)
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