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To: Forest Keeper; jo kus; annalex; Kolokotronis; .30Carbine; Alamo-Girl; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD
We all pray "about" things we are sure of

That's silly, imo. If you can't change anything why not just say "Thy will be done" and be done with it?

This started with your assertion that the Bible was "wrong" for saying that God raised Christ. I maintain that the Bible isn't "wrong"

Well, if He couldn't raise Himself, but needed outside help, then He is not God. Clearly, when +Paul says Christ was raised by God, he puts Christ outside of God. If I say FK was rescued by a police officer, clearly the rescuer is not by implication FK but someone other than FK. If I say FK rescued himself leaves no doubt that it is FK. +Paul never clearly says Christ is God. He says Christ is an "image" of God (but so are we as well!).

All the Dems ran around defending Clinton by saying everything was OK because he was such a wonderful President. :)

Pope Alexander VI was a wonderful pope as well. His private life wasn't much of a life of a priest, but like I said, being a good pilot, president oir pope doesn't come with specific character features.

In fact, one's character does not take away from the skill of an individual. You can have a pedophile physician who is a top-notch doctor.

15,514 posted on 06/04/2007 2:10:28 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; jo kus; annalex; Kolokotronis; .30Carbine; Alamo-Girl; Dr. Eckleburg
That's silly, imo. If you can't change anything why not just say "Thy will be done" and be done with it?

Is there anything in the Lord's Prayer that we can change?

15,516 posted on 06/04/2007 4:49:50 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: kosta50; jo kus; annalex; Kolokotronis; .30Carbine; Alamo-Girl; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD
FK: "We all pray "about" things we are sure of."

That's silly, imo. If you can't change anything why not just say "Thy will be done" and be done with it?

Do you believe that all prayer is only about supplication? I am absolutely sure that Christ died for my sins, and I thank Him for that all the time. I do so in prayer.

FK: "This started with your assertion that the Bible was "wrong" for saying that God raised Christ. I maintain that the Bible isn't "wrong"

Well, if He couldn't raise Himself, but needed outside help, then He is not God. Clearly, when +Paul says Christ was raised by God, he puts Christ outside of God.

Nobody has said anything about God needing help, except perhaps for Apostolics who say that God needs the help of man to save people. :) At any rate, I know of no one else on this forum, on any side, who would agree with you that Paul puts Christ outside of God. Indeed, Paul acknowledges Christ as God when they first met.

+Paul never clearly says Christ is God. He says Christ is an "image" of God (but so are we as well!).

Paul says it LOTS of times without reference to "image":

Rom 9:5 : Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. NIV

Col 2:9 : For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. KJV

1 Tim 3:16 : 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. KJV

There are more, and I really think you are pushing water up hill to say that Paul didn't say (or think) that Christ was God.

15,594 posted on 06/07/2007 4:48:52 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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