[kosta50]

Mostly it’s a wearying topic 2 me

I wish they'd make up their minds, because you can't have God predestining people to fail and hold them responsible for their failure.

[Quix]

There is some both/and-ness in the whole area of predestination/Armenianism.

However, I think many of the Calvinists hereon take things to an extreme virtually out of the box.

There are mysteries vis a vis GOD’s Omicience etc. but I’m confident we can take His Word at face value.

and,

While His perspective on fairness is not ours; His ways are higher than ours . . .

He is NOT LESS fair than we are.

AS Vicktor Frankel said . . .

THERE IS NO FREEDOM WITHOUT RESPONSIBILITY

and

also, it’s clear—imho—THERE IS NO RESPONSIBILITY WITHOUT FREEDOM—AUTHENTIC FREEDOM TO CHOOSE AND FACE THE AUTHENTIC CONSEQUENCES OF THE CHOICES.