So, then, I suppose you don't pray for it, do you?
Why do you prohibit the Godhead from acting at all? That's what you're doing. You are saying that any act of God must be on an individual Person's basis.
In the Divine Economy of our salvation, that's how it is in the Bible. Otherwise, why send Holy Spirit, as in the HS leading Christ into the wilderness? Or HS descending on the Gentiles? Or HS indwelling in us? Why not just say "God" and not have to "worry" which Divine Persona is accomplishing the task?
no where are we told that God's essence is incapable of action as a unity.
Again, in the Divine Economy of our salvation, God accomplishes things in different Divine Personae. It was the Word that took on human nature. It is the Father who knows when the End of Times will be, not even the Son, etc. That doesn't mean that God is not present fully in the Fathers, the Son or the Holy Spirit, regardless which Divine Persona is accomplishing the plan.
That just makes no sense.
I agree there. God makes no sense; His thoughts are not our and His ways are not ours either. He is inconceivable, beyond our logic; the ancient Fathers used to say that God'a sanctity is darkness to our reason.
Yes, I was imprecise in saying that Jesus performed miracles to convert. God converts by changing hearts inwardly. Of course outward miracles are not required for conversion.
The Bible doesn't say they are required, but it sure uses miracles all over the place to make people believe. In fact, it is the leading cause of conversions in the Bible.
Why does the year 1998 immediately come into my mind after reading this? :)
1998? No idea.
Now THIS is significant! :) I thought that Orthodoxy leaned in this direction, and my understanding is that the Latins have a VERY different view.
The Latins do have a different teaching. To us a priest is an icon of Christ; to the Latins he is an alter-Christ. As you know, we do not worship an icon of Chirst, but the Person it reminds us of. God causes things to be, we only plant and water because he gave us a chance to do so. (cf 1 Cor 3:5-6)
Thus a priest does what he is supoosed to do, and the rest is done by God. That's why, as long as a priest is does what he is supposed to do (he is a servant after all!), the quality of his character cannot affect the sacraments any more than a waiter's charater can affect the quality of the food prepared by the Chef that he brings to you, as long as he is doing what he is supposed to be doing, namely serving you.
My learning has been that Roman Catholics believe that God literally transferred the power to forgive sins and "transubstantiate", etc.
We do not know what transubstantiation is. We do not know how the HS changes the pre-sanctified Gifts into the Body and Blood of Christ.
My own "understanding" of it is that the HS purifies the Gifts to the same pristine quality that is found only in, and identical to His body and His blood, without changing the matter itself, just as the HS changes people into something "unrecongizable" after they are "saved," to use your terminology. Same people, different quality. From beastliness to sainthood.
KOSTA: So, then, I suppose you don't pray for it, do you?
We are as sure of our own resurrection as we are of Christ's resurrection. Scripture gives us this confidence.
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord." -- 1 CORINTHIANS 15:54-58"So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
So, then, I suppose you don't pray for it, do you?
We all pray "about" things we are sure of, but I can't remember a recent specific prayer about this. Of course, one could try to include it in the Lord's Prayer. Is that where you're going? I do say the Lord's Prayer. :)
Why not just say "God" and not have to "worry" which Divine Persona is accomplishing the task?
The Bible does it both ways, why should there be a prohibition against that? This started with your assertion that the Bible was "wrong" for saying that God raised Christ. I maintain that the Bible isn't "wrong".
Kosta: "Whether a pilot is a rotten character and a wife abuser does not invalidate his piloting skills. he may be a rotten human being but he may be a perfect pilot."
FK: "Why does the year 1998 immediately come into my mind after reading this? :)"
1998? No idea.
It was just a reference to the Lewinsky scandal. All the Dems ran around defending Clinton by saying everything was OK because he was such a wonderful President. :)
To us a priest is an icon of Christ; to the Latins he is an alter-Christ. ......
Thanks for the explanation.