[HarleyD]

We know that baptized infants who die are saved, because we know that baptism "confers the grace of justification", and "effects the remission of all punishments of sin", and is "valid and licit" for young children. (Those three are all infallible Catholic dogmas.)

You know because someone told you. There is no scripture to back any of this up.

No, because we have an authoritative and infallible Magisterium. Calvinists have no authoritative or infallible magisterium

It's "infallible" because you guys say it's "infallible". In my mind it wasn't very infallible when it declare people could pay they way out of purgatory and then retracted it 150 years later. That was a big "OOPS"!

The Calvinistic conception of assurance requires knowing one's election [to glory] status in order to have assurance.

If that is the case, how do you know that an infant doesn't know they have been elected. An infant can't talk. Perhaps they know they've been elected and have that assurance. You just don't know. Dr. E. position could be completely correct.

The Catholic conception of assurance does not require knowing one's election [to glory] status.

If you are assured, then wouldn't you know that you are elect? It seems to me Dr. E's position makes more sense.

[adiaireton8]

You know because someone told you.

Everything you know about Jesus and the gospel you know because someone told you.

There is no scripture to back any of this up.

So? You apparently are working under the assumption of 'sola scriptura' which is not itself taught anywhere in Scripture.

It's "infallible" because you guys say it's "infallible".

That is not *why* it is infallible; that is how we know it is infallible. It is infallible because Christ gave it that charism.

In my mind it wasn't very infallible when it declare people could pay they way out of purgatory and then retracted it 150 years later.

That was never a dogma of the Church, and infallibility applies only to dogmas.

If that is the case, how do you know that an infant doesn't know they have been elected. An infant can't talk. Perhaps they know they've been elected and have that assurance. You just don't know. Dr. E. position could be completely correct.

The issue in question had nothing to do with whether an infant knows it is elected for glory, or whether an infant can have assurance. You may want to go back and read the discussion again.

If you are assured, then wouldn't you know that you are elect?

No. I can see that you are unfamiliar with the Catholic conception of assurance. You are working with the Calvinistic conception of assurance, which requires that one knows that one is elect [for glory]. The Catholic conception of assurance is the present knowledge that if one were to die now one would [eventually] enjoy the eternal vision of God. The Calvinistic conception of assurance is the present knowledge that one will die in such a state that one will enjoy the eternal vision of God.

-A8