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To: Risky-Riskerdo; Quix; HarleyD
"These and Greater things shall you [believers] do!" . . . . —Jesus The Christ In context, Jesus was speaking directly to the disciples, and for the Apostolic era when the Church was being established, and not to every believer as asserted.

That's as good an explanation as I've read. If we believe the miracles of the Apostolic era continue to this day, then we'd almost have to believe men can forgive other men's sins.

Which, of course, we don't believe. So I think it's a lot more Scriptural to believe all the Apostles gifts ceased with the Apostles.

That doesn't mean men can't rise to become wonderful teachers, ordained by God. It's just that the overt, supernatural things have ended because Christ risen is all the miracle any of us truly needs.

Like Harley said, by faith and not by sight.

14,905 posted on 05/21/2007 7:33:30 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Alamo-Girl; DarthVader; Marysecretary

Wrong on both counts.

The exhortation was given

TO THOSE WHO BELIEVE.

The available classes IN THE CONTEXT OF THE SCRIPTURE ARE:

THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE

VS

THOSE WHO BELIEVE.

Which class do you prefer to be in?

= = =

Also . . . Scripture indicates that believers . . .

John 20:23 (Amplified Bible)
Amplified Bible (AMP)

Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation
[AMP at Lockman] [The Lockman Foundation] [Amplified at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

23[Now having received the Holy Spirit, and being [a]led and directed by Him] if you forgive the sins of anyone, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of anyone, they are retained.

John 20:23 (The Message)
The Message (MSG)

Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson
[The Message at Navpress] [NavPress]

22-23Then he took a deep breath and breathed into them. “Receive the Holy Spirit,” he said. “If you forgive someone’s sins, they’re gone for good. If you don’t forgive sins, what are you going to do with them?”

John 20:23 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain
[A Public Domain Bible] [KJV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

John 20:23 (New Living Translation)
New Living Translation (NLT)

Holy Bible. New Living Translation copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers.
[NLT at Tyndale] [Tyndale House Publishers, Inc.]

23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, they are forgiven. If you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

John 20:23 (Young’s Literal Translation)
Young’s Literal Translation (YLT)

Public Domain
[A Public Domain Bible]

23if of any ye may loose the sins, they are loosed to them; if of any ye may retain, they have been retained.’

AND:

Matthew 16:19 (New Living Translation)
New Living Translation (NLT)

Holy Bible. New Living Translation copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers.
[NLT at Tyndale] [Tyndale House Publishers, Inc.]

19 And I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. Whatever you forbid[a] on earth will be forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permit[b] on earth will be permitted in heaven.”

Matthew 16:19 (The Message)
The Message (MSG)

Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson
[The Message at Navpress] [NavPress]

19”And that’s not all. You will have complete and free access to God’s kingdom, keys to open any and every door: no more barriers between heaven and earth, earth and heaven. A yes on earth is yes in heaven. A no on earth is no in heaven.”

Matthew 16:19 (Amplified Bible)
Amplified Bible (AMP)

Copyright © 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by The Lockman Foundation
[AMP at Lockman] [The Lockman Foundation] [Amplified at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind (declare to be improper and unlawful) on earth [a]must be what is already bound in heaven; and whatever you loose (declare lawful) on earth [b]must be what is already loosed in heaven.(A)

Matthew 16:19 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain
[A Public Domain Bible] [KJV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matthew 16:19 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)

Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
[NKJV at Thomas Nelson] [Thomas Nelson, Inc.]

19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed[a] in heaven.”

Matthew 16:19 (Young’s Literal Translation)
Young’s Literal Translation (YLT)

Public Domain
[A Public Domain Bible]

19and I will give to thee the keys of the reign of the heavens, and whatever thou mayest bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever thou mayest loose upon the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.’


14,923 posted on 05/21/2007 9:28:00 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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