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To: kosta50; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; betty boop; .30Carbine; Quix
We were created in His image and given dominion on earth. He created us in His likeness so that we may be reasonable, merciful and moral beings, not helpless morons.

As you well know, any person can have all of those good qualities, and yet be damned to hell. It is God's grace that saves, and we are "helpless" in the sense that we cannot manufacture it ourselves. It must be given to us.

That we use those blessings to condemn ourselves to hell is not His, but our choosing. We can equally choose to cleave to God and be saved. It's a choice, for the wicked do not seek after God (cf Ps 10:4).

Mostly true. We just disagree on who the driving force behind that decision is.

God offers His saving grace to all because He desires to have all men saved (cf 1 Tim 2:4), and He does not desire or delight in death (perdition) even of the wicked (cf Eze 18:23) or anyone for that matter (cf Eze 18:32).

I agree that God does not delight in perdition, but you describe a very weak God who most often fails to get what He wants. The God you and I believe in is omnipotent, which means that He ALWAYS gets what He wants according to His good, pleasing, and perfect will. By definition, it is impossible for an omnipotent being to fail to get what He wants. You can argue that God WANTED to leave salvation up to us, but that doesn't square with a literal interpretation of Him wanting all to be saved.

He offers to everyone, not only some, precisely because He loves everyone, even the wicked.

You have been showed all the scripture contradicting this idea. God does not love the damned, or else He would have saved them. He is omnipotent. To say that God treasures man's free will over and above His own love for His creation is like saying a good parent would let his 4-year-old play in traffic because the child wanted to. It makes zero sense. God's love for HIS children is MUCH stronger than that. And the parent-child comparison isn't even close. Our own human children are WAY more mature and capable than we adults are compared to God. Human history proves this true.

14,731 posted on 05/17/2007 6:33:49 AM PDT by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; betty boop; .30Carbine; Quix
As you well know, any person can have all of those good qualities, and yet be damned to hell

No, mankind is damned to hell because it misused and misuses its freedom and the blessings God gave us.

We just disagree on who the driving force behind that decision is

God gives. We (mis)use by His permission. You believe that God teaches you how to drive, gives you a driving license, and a car, but you never get to drive it.

I agree that God does not delight in perdition, but you describe a very weak God who most often fails to get what He wants

He desires to save all men, doesn't delight in seeing anyone lost, even the wicked (all biblical statements), but the reality tells us that not all are saved, and that the good and the wicked perish, none of which makes it my description. You have issues with those scriptural truths and how they play themselves out in the real world.

The Scriptures tell us that things happen even though God doesn't desire them. Are you denying that?

By definition, it is impossible for an omnipotent being to fail to get what He wants

God wants us to have freedom. We do. He gave us the intellect and the means to not to be helpless little morons, but rather to be a reflection of His image and likeness, not as His little robots but as His people.

And we failed. In your theology, that means, your omnipotent God either isn't omnipotent or He simply wants us to fail!

I really think the Reformed suppress the idea that this is what their theology subliminally teaches. It's a defense mechanism because it would crumble the whole foundation of their faith.

You have been shown all the scripture contradicting this idea. God does not love the damned, or else He would have saved them. He is omnipotent

Of course He loves the damned; He love all His creation. That's why He desire for all men to be saved. They are damned not because He created them damned (as you believe!) but because they chose to be damned by rejecting God.

14,734 posted on 05/17/2007 7:42:44 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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