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To: jo kus
you just run to the same scriptures and ignore context and other scriptures. You do what any Cult member would do to defend their position.

Yes, exactly what you do with James 2...

No, because I gave you other scriptures that explain my position, scriptures that you cannot deal with and thus ignore.

I have proven, by comparing scripture with scripture, that James 2 is not speaking of works being needed for eternal life.

What James is referring to in James 2 is the growth of the believer, not his salvation.

If a believer does not grow, the Lord removes him from this life (Jn.15:2, 1Jn.5:16 cf Acts 5:5)

Note, however, that I don't belittle you with the label "Cult". This tells everyone out there WHO has some love in their heart and who is intent on dissolving the Body of Christ. As my tagline states, I am not obliged to continue listening to your debasing attacks - yet I have without responding in kind. THAT'S a sign of humility. Your arrogant attacks that fail to see the hypocrisy of them are not.

I told you had a cultic method of interpretation of scripture, which you do.

Any cult that wants to 'prove' a heresy, sticks to a few picked scriptures and ignores those that prove him wrong.

That is exactly what you and your RC friends are doing with James 2.

Paul states very clearly that works have nothing to do with one's salvation and James does not contradict that fact.

Works have nothing to do with getting saved or staying saved.

They have everything to do with showing one is saved.

Until you figure out that you personally do not hold the key to the Scriptures, whatever attack you make against Catholics for improper interpretation can be laid at your feet in spades. Look to the Scriptures. They tell us to defend the reason for our hope IN MEEKNESS - IN HUMILITY. Until you learn humility, your interpretations of Scriptures have no authority.

I gave you the facts and did not attack you personally.

I pointed out the error of your method of interpretation.

Unable to deal with the truth, you harden yourself to it.

The Lake of Fire is going to be full of people repeating over and over again, 'faith without works is dead', people who thought they could do something to earn salvation

Regards

Likewise.

14,462 posted on 05/11/2007 4:37:50 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (For what saith the scripture? (Rom.4:3))
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To: fortheDeclaration
No, because I gave you other scriptures that explain my position, scriptures that you cannot deal with and thus ignore.

I am sorry, but you can't use Paul to prove James. They write differently and use different metaphors. They look at the Christian faith from a different point of view. They do not contradict. I see your attempt to use Paul's unclear writings to twist the meaning of James very clear writings. Quite frankly, I am at a loss to explain how you come up with James as refering to "physical salvation". James will always be a thorn in the side of Protestant eigesis. Your explanation is not helpful to the context of James. Your misreading of Paul only confuses the issue.

What James is referring to in James 2 is the growth of the believer, not his salvation.

You are ignoring the three times he says we are not saved by faith alone. THe word "saved" is pretty clearly pointing to the fact that he is talking about salvation!

If a believer does not grow, the Lord removes him from this life (Jn.15:2, 1Jn.5:16 cf Acts 5:5)

Which life is that? The physical? NO! WHO is the way, the truth, and the LIFE? Which "Life" does John refer to? He is invariably speaking of the life in Christ - what we refer to as eternal salvation. Those who do not have Christ abiding in them have no life. No Christ. No salvation. This is not speaking of physical life, but spiritual.

I told you had a cultic method of interpretation of scripture, which you do. Any cult that wants to 'prove' a heresy, sticks to a few picked scriptures and ignores those that prove him wrong

I disagree with your interpretation of James and Paul. So I am of a cult and I use cultic methods of interpretation? You claim to know Christ when you feel you must stoop to such methods? I can certainly go to Paul to explain the Catholic point of view. However, James very clearly states that your position is wrong. Your inability to defend your position and go to more ambiguous Scriptures is not how one should seek the truth. If your stance falls on such clear Scriptures, why must you go to Paul, whom Peter says can be difficult to understand? Because, through subterfuge, you want to trick people into thinking your sola fide is found in the Bible.

Paul states very clearly that works have nothing to do with one's salvation and James does not contradict that fact.

If you can learn to read my posts and those of other Catholics on this forum, you might actually find that WE do not teach that works without faith save, either. Without them, however, you have no faith. James clearly tells us that a faith without works is not a saving faith. Paul says the same exact thing in 1 Cor 13:2-3. He says faith to move mountains is worthless without love. These BOTH tell us that faith ALONE does not save. Dead faith, worthless faith, do NOTHING to save us.

You are teaching a false gospel, friend. Without love, you are nothing. The ONLY command Jesus gave us is to love. NOT to have faith without love. TO LOVE OTHERS AS HE HAD LOVED US. Move that over in your mind and consider again your stance. Your stance does not include love. How can you then say you are following Christ when you do not even live up to His ONE command??? Your behavior here merely amplifies how much theology and action go hand in hand.

I gave you the facts and did not attack you personally.

First, I am part of a community that is spiritually dead, then I am part of a cult, but you didn't attack me personally? Ten years ago, I would have had some choice words for you, but by the grace of God, I have moved beyond these little games you play.

The Lake of Fire is going to be full of people repeating over and over again, 'faith without works is dead', people who thought they could do something to earn salvation.

You do not know the future, so kindly don't lecture me about it. For all you know, you might be occupying the Lake of Fire...

Regards

14,467 posted on 05/11/2007 6:12:06 AM PDT by jo kus (Humility is present when one debases oneself without being obliged to do so- St.Chrysostom; Phil 2:8)
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