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To: bornacatholic; sitetest; BlackElk; mockingbyrd; The_Reader_David; Kolokotronis; kosta50; annalex
Ok, then, you think Jesus violated 1 Timothy 5:3-8 and, accrd. to Holy Writ, is worse than an infidel.

What? The passage you cite puts the first responsibility on the children if the mother has no other means of support. It does not say, for example, to take care of one's rich mother who does not need taking care of. Jesus, as the oldest child of His widowed mother, did take care of that, thus relieving the obligation of the other children. This is in full compliance with the passage. Besides, it is not even clear that the brothers of Jesus were even believers yet. That would have disqualified them from the requirement here.

Obviously, Jesus loved John. That is a tautology. Do you think He didn't love the other Apostles as much?

What? I was clearly referring to all of the many verses describing John as the ONE Jesus loved. Surely you are familiar with them. I do not think this designation meant that Jesus loved any of the disciples more or less in a Christian sense, but it does indicate to me that Jesus had unique relationships with His disciples. For whatever reason, John was favored. At the darkest hour, he was the only one among the Apostles who showed up. It makes perfect sense that Jesus would choose John.

To me it is strange modern evangelicals desire to throw-in with Helvidius, and even repudiate the reformers as a way of doing that.

I'm not sure what you mean by repudiating the reformers, but by my limited reading on this, it does appear that Helvidius was correct on this issue. He sure took a beating from Jerome, who called Helvidius an "ignorant boor who has scarce known the first glimmer of learning, ..." (New Advent). As a Reformer, when I hear this my first thought is to think that this Helvidius guy must have been alright! :)

1,440 posted on 12/14/2006 9:18:03 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper
So, Jesus was wealthy, huh?

Did you notice that only John noted he was the one loved? Fo you think his ego was a mite unrestrained? I am just saying...

St. Jerome cited Scripture and Tradition. Helvidius had nothing.

I 'spose I could say maybe that is why you side with him, but, it is Advent and I am trying to be good :)

1,457 posted on 12/15/2006 2:48:34 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic; Forest Keeper
Besides, it is not even clear that the brothers of Jesus were even believers yet. That would have disqualified them from the requirement here.

Jesus' brothers were not believers at this point. They became believers after He appeared to them ressurected.

To this point (the crucifixion) ... the brothers had only demonstrated their unbelief and animosity to His ministry.
John 7:1 After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.

2 Now the Jews' feast of tabernacles was at hand.

3 His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest.

4 For there is no man that doeth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If thou do these things, shew thyself to the world.

5 For neither did his brethren believe in him.
If Jesus truly honored His mother, ... why would He place (or allow) her in the care of such as these ... when He had a loving disciple standing right at hand.

1,471 posted on 12/15/2006 6:27:44 AM PST by Quester
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