There is no sin in that; the only sin that the scripture mentionsi is of Cham.
I doubt you are making a case that Mary's lifelong sinless club is joined by all the people you mention above. :) Or are you?
I think that it would be reasonable to conclude that all who are described as perfect in the scripture were in fact perfect, or else the scripture would not describe them so. The Church does not hold any such belief dogmatically (the belief in the sinlessness of Mary is dogmatic), but in the realm of scriptural analysis, we would have to conclude that indeed Noah, John the Forerunner, and perhaps some others were indeed sinless.
we cannot conclude that she asked for a miracle
You speculate beyond scripture here, again. The response Christ gave her indicates that He understood her as requesting a miracle.
That doesn't follow logically, etc.
I don't know how else to explain it. When Jesus was found int he Temple, she did not have a full understanding, yet at Cana she requested a miracle, and both events precede the Centurion episode. The faith of the centurion is so impressive precisely because he only knows of Christ from others. He and Mary are the exact opposite in terms of how close they are to Christ, hence the comparision was not made to Mary but to others equally infamiliar with Him.
We see no presence or participation by Mary when Jesus gathered His disciples for the first time.
They followed Him, Yes, with some skepticism (John 1:46), but at Cana Christ "manifested His glory", St. John teaches us, and that was, he says, "the beginning of miracles", and done on Mary's request.
That would make Mary the person of power here, and the text just doesn't support that at all
The adoption is mutual "thy mother ... thy son". It could be that on the economic level John was taking care of Mary, but given the solemnity of the circumstance we Catholics see a deeper truth about discipleship and Mary told here. In Apocalypse 12 Mary is seen as the queen, thus certainly a person of power.
This presumes that Mary could have somehow stopped the Incarnation as God had planned it
God foresaw her response as He foresees all that He predestines, but on the other hand, God would not want to rape anyone, so yes, we have to conclude that she could have stopped the Incarnation if we believe in the goodness of God.
There is no sin in that; the only sin that the scripture mentions is of Cham.
Genesis is clear that not only was he drunk, but he passed out and lay naked in his tent, for anyone to see who entered. The scripture describes this type of ABUSE of alcohol as sinful. While I am a Southern Baptist, I do not happen to be a teetotaler. If ANY use of alcohol was sinful, then Christ's first miracle would make no sense to me. (By definition, Christ would have been tempting.) However, alcohol abuse I do believe is spoken of in scripture:
Prov 23:29-35 : 29 Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has strife? Who has complaints? Who has needless bruises? Who has bloodshot eyes? 30 Those who linger over wine,who go to sample bowls of mixed wine. 31 Do not gaze at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup, when it goes down smoothly! 32 In the end it bites like a snake and poisons like a viper. 33 Your eyes will see strange sights and your mind imagine confusing things. 34 You will be like one sleeping on the high seas, lying on top of the rigging. 35 "They hit me," you will say, "but I'm not hurt!They beat me, but I don't feel it! When will I wake up so I can find another drink?"
It sounds like this describes Noah to a "T". Now, is this sinful? :
Gal 5:19-21 : 19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Noah sinned.
FK: "I doubt you are making a case that Mary's lifelong sinless club is joined by all the people you mention above. :) Or are you?"
I think that it would be reasonable to conclude that all who are described as perfect in the scripture were in fact perfect, or else the scripture would not describe them so. The Church does not hold any such belief dogmatically (the belief in the sinlessness of Mary is dogmatic), but in the realm of scriptural analysis, we would have to conclude that indeed Noah, John the Forerunner, and perhaps some others were indeed sinless.
By this standard Job would probably have to be included on the list. In any event, why are not these people venerated as a special class? I would think that they would, along with Mary, also be "ultimate" examples. My guess might be that you would give some special attention to John the Forerunner, but I am unaware of any to Noah or Job.
Just before Jesus pays John the famous compliment, we have what could arguably be described as a sin by John:
Matt 11:2-3 : 2 When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples 3 to ask him, "Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?"
John had ABSOLUTELY no excuse for asking this question, based on what he had already seen with his own eyes. He had the benefit of prophecy, a familial relationship with Jesus, and was an eyewitness to at least one miracle involving Him. How could this not be sin? Even as Jesus learned of this sin, He nonetheless praises John. Jesus knew that ALL men are sinners, including John the Forerunner, and all the others, but that among all those sinners, none was greater than John.
[The centurion] and Mary are the exact opposite in terms of how close they are to Christ, hence the comparison was not made to Mary but to others equally unfamiliar with Him.
And I'M the one who "speculates beyond scripture"? :) Jesus says: "I tell you, I have not found such great faith even in Israel." There is nothing in this simple statement to imply that He was making a comparison to only those Jews unfamiliar with Him. He could have made that distinction with three extra words: "such as you", or the like. He didn't. The statement was truly profound because Jesus elevated the faith of the centurion above that of the Jews who HAD seen Him and known of Him. Blessed are those who have not seen, yet believed.
FK: "This presumes that Mary could have somehow stopped the Incarnation as God had planned it."
God foresaw her response as He foresees all that He predestines, but on the other hand, God would not want to rape anyone, so yes, we have to conclude that she could have stopped the Incarnation if we believe in the goodness of God.
Mary was a virgin of faith, and from a suitable lineage. That made her scripturally qualified for her role, but certainly she was not the ONLY one so qualified. If a major source of your veneration of her is her glorious decision to obey God, (many would have done so), then how can you know if she was even God's first choice? I mean, if the fate of mankind depended on a human decision, and God used His foreknowledge, then Mary could have been His 30th choice for all we know. She was just the first one whom He knew would say "Yes". In fact, if everything hinged on a human decision, then it is LIKELY that Mary was not a first choice. This would make Mary something much less than I think she is.
Now, again assuming that it was a human decision which determined our fate, another possible view is that God only considered those whom He knew would say "yes". Even if true, it still makes the choice of Mary arbitrary, since many would have said "yes". It still lessens Mary, and makes her less than worthy of special veneration.
I see an inherent problem in the Catholic view. On the one hand you want to honor and venerate Mary above all other humans who ever lived (outside Jesus) for her independent decision to obey the command of God. On the other hand, you say that it was God who gave her special grace from the beginning, thus ensuring that decision. That doesn't square. Didn't God's foreknowledge of her "yes" include His giving of the special grace? That would take the decision out of Mary's hands and ruin everything. :)