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To: Alamo-Girl; hosepipe; Kolokotronis; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; betty boop; blue-duncan
NOte: Due to the length of your replies, I will break them down into smaller sections.

Me: Whether the Gentiles were to be included or not is a story unto itself. Jesus never taught it and Acts 13:46 suggests it was an aftertought.

You: I strongly disagree. It was taught in the Song of Moses (Torah) and in the prophets:

Yeah, in the OT the Gentiles were included alright — in God's wrath, that's for sure. Read on, why stop at verse 21; go the next three verses and see that this "inclusion" was anything but "grafting" the Gentiles to the Jewish vine; rather, it is a declaration of genocide!

Some "inclusion" AG.

14,094 posted on 05/07/2007 7:30:31 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; hosepipe; Kolokotronis; HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; betty boop; blue-duncan
Discussing the issues in smaller sections here on the forum is ok with me as long as we accept the revelations of God altogether:

Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: - Luke 24:25

Concerning the Song of Moses and its reference to the Gentiles in verse 21, you said:

Yeah, in the OT the Gentiles were included alright — in God's wrath, that's for sure. Read on, why stop at verse 21; go the next three verses and see that this "inclusion" was anything but "grafting" the Gentiles to the Jewish vine; rather, it is a declaration of genocide!

To the contrary, dear kosta50, the verses following 21 are speaking of God’s judgment of the children of Israel for their idolatry – not the Gentiles.

Here is the commandment and reason given to Moses for writing the “Song of Moses” which will also be sung in heaven:

And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go [to be] among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them. Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God [is] not among us? And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods. Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel. For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant. And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware. – Deut 31:16-21

And here is the section of the Song of Moses, the mention of the “not-a-people (Gentiles)” is italicized, followed by the curses which truly apply to the nation of the children of Israel, not the Gentiles:

And when the LORD saw [it], he abhorred [them], because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end [shall be]: for they [are] a very froward generation, children in whom [is] no faith. They have moved me to jealousy with [that which is] not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with [those which are] not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them. [They shall be] burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust. The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling [also] with the man of gray hairs. I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men: Were it not that I feared the wrath of the enemy, lest their adversaries should behave themselves strangely, [and] lest they should say, Our hand [is] high, and the LORD hath not done all this.

For they [are] a nation void of counsel, neither [is there any] understanding in them. O that they were wise, [that] they understood this, [that] they would consider their latter end! How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up? For their rock [is] not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves [being] judges. For their vine [is] of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes [are] grapes of gall, their clusters [are] bitter: Their wine [is] the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps. – Deut 32:19-33

And so it has been, that when Israel is right before God, the nation has had astonishing military successes – and when they were not - they were overcome in similar disproportion revealing that God Himself caused it (Jericho, Ai, Isa 30:15-17). Likewise, God has scattered them (diasporas) and regathered them again. (Jer 31:10, nation of Israel today.)

How many nations have survived two millennia of diaspora?

I strongly reassert that the statements in Romans 10:19-21 applying Deu 32:21 to Gentiles are Truth.

14,121 posted on 05/07/2007 10:48:23 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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