Replies

Thank you on your thoughts.

The leaning I have in the spirit is that Christ did not come to establish a new religion but to fulfill the law and prophets in establishing God’s family. It was always Christianity, but most of the Jews didn’t understand that then – nor do they understand it even now

Whether the Gentiles were to be included or not is a story unto itself. Jesus never taught it and Acts 13:46 suggests it was an aftertought. The Great Commission is perhaps also, or perhaps it was a later-day revelation, especially given that it was written when it was becoming increasingly obvious that the Church will survive only among the Gentiles.

Be it as it is, Judaism is not Christianity either way. We can read the OT only through the lens of the NT, and see in it the foreshadowing of Christ, an overture of the full revelation.

Thus, when the Apostles believe that Christ is Elijah, or Jeremiah, or John the Baptist, they are expressing a Judaic pagan-ifluenced belief (common in those days) in reincarnation, for which Christ, curiously, does not rebuke them. Yet Christianity rejects reincarnation.

If I were to fabricate a religion or doctrine of my liking, it would not resemble that to which I have testified. In my “religion” Christ would have arrived the conquering lion, healed everyone, revealed Himself to all

If Judaism "missed the mark" as you seme to suggest earlier, why then use Judaic concepts? If their beliefs fall short, then how can their understanding be our measure?

Not that you are wrong, but the indwelling Spirit has leaned me to the understanding that God is beyond “time” and therefore our concept of “cause/effect.”

Regardless, the Bible tells us that God actually made Adam, bodysoul, one nature, our concept of "cause/effect' notwithstanding.

"the body and the soul were formed at the same time—not one before and the other afterwards, as the ravings of Origen would have it" (+John of Damascus, "Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith," II.12, Patrologia Græca, Vol. XCIV, col. 921A)

Thank you for your reply!

Whether the Gentiles were to be included or not is a story unto itself. Jesus never taught it and Acts 13:46 suggests it was an aftertought.

I strongly disagree. It was taught in the Song of Moses (Torah) and in the prophets:

They have moved me to jealousy with [that which is] not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with [those which are] not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. – Deut 32:21

I am sought of [them that] asked not [for me]; I am found of [them that] sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation [that] was not called by my name. – Isaia 65:1

But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by [them that are] no people, [and] by a foolish nation I will anger you. But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. – Romans 10:19-21

And it is taught by Jesus here:

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] to dogs. And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great [is] thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour. – Matt 15:24-28

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. – Matt 23:37-38

Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. – John 4:21-23

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd. – John 10:16

And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast: The same came therefore to Philip, which was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and desired him, saying, Sir, we would see Jesus. Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: and again Andrew and Philip tell Jesus. And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. – John 12:20-24

You continued:

Be it as it is, Judaism is not Christianity either way. We can read the OT only through the lens of the NT, and see in it the foreshadowing of Christ, an overture of the full revelation.

Again I strongly reassert that: “It was always Christianity, but most of the Jews didn’t understand that then – nor do they understand it even now” But there will be a day they will understand:

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn. – Zec 12:10

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they [also] which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. – Rev 1:7

I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. – Isa 45:23

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth; And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father. – Phl 2:9-11

You continued:

These words are setting off the alarms in the Spirit. The doctrine you embrace rejects that which God Himself declared. How is it not therefore, a doctrine of man?

Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive [it], this is Elias, which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. – Matt 11:11-15

And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist. – Matt 17:9-13

You continued:

So, then your beliefs are based on what if not on doctrines of men (yourself included)? They certainly cannot be based on Scriputre alone because kabbalah – which you often quote as a source – is not Scripture. If Judaism "missed the mark" as you seme to suggest earlier, why then use Judaic concepts? If their beliefs fall short, then how can their understanding be our measure?

My beliefs are based on the revelations of God the Father through Jesus Christ, through the indwelling Holy Spirit, through Scripture and through Creation.

The Spirit leads me to investigate many things – among them are ancient manuscripts, Jewish mysticism, Catholic catechism, books and journals, correspondence (including on this forum.) But I do not embrace a thing unless He leans me to do so – and then in virtually every case, He confirms it through Scripture as well.

That is why I’m very careful to delineate between leanings in the spirit and mere “musings.”

Regardless, the Bible tells us that God actually made Adam, bodysoul, one nature, our concept of "cause/effect' notwithstanding.

Cause/effect cannot be dismissed from creation or “making.” When the maker or creator is God Himself, the cause is in timelessness though the effect is in time.

Logic, physics, mathematics, geometry, etc. do not apply to the Creator - though they apply quite nicely to the (physical) creation.