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To: Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; Alex Murphy; Gamecock; topcat54; Frumanchu; Blogger; ...
I wouldn't know why to celebrate an infant's baptism, since we would have no idea whether the infant was ACTUALLY a child of God.

Great point FK. Thankfully we are well past the age when we see people put to death for being baptized as adults.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Peter is instructing the individual that they must first Repent. Only someone with a measure of maturity is going to be able to understand their need for repentance, certainly not an infant that can't even speak yet. We already know from Scripture that the only means by which an individuals sins are remitted is through Jesus Christ.

John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already,...",

So we know that the remission of sins is not accomplished in the baptism, but by Faith Alone in our Savior Jesus Christ.

Scripture also shows that the Holy Spirit indwells the believer prior to baptism.

Acts 11:15-16 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, "John baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

So clearly the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a result in Faith Alone in Jesus Alone, not the physical act of baptism. Repentance is the act of someone who has already been drawn to the LORD and has been changed and made a new man in Christ. Infant baptism is a means by which membership in a particular church is achieved.

14,064 posted on 05/06/2007 3:59:39 PM PDT by wmfights (LUKE 9:49-50 , MARK 9:38-41)
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To: wmfights; Forest Keeper; HarleyD; Alex Murphy; Gamecock; topcat54; Frumanchu; Blogger

What about John 3:5?

Your thoughts on the meaning of baptism are close to the Orthodox belief. Baptism is indeed a Mystery of initiation into The Church, without which there is no assurance of theosis. The Church however believes that whatever sins the catechumen has are forgiven as a result of the grace of the sacrament. Now obviously with infants this isn’t an issue, but their initiation is.

As to adults, the Fathers taught:

“Faith and baptism are two kindred and inseparable ways of salvation: faith is perfected through baptism, baptism is established through faith, and both are completed by the same names. For as we believe in the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, so are we also baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost; first comes the confession, introducing us to salvation, and baptism follows, setting the seal upon our assent” +Basil the Great

but as to infant baptism:

“If the only meaning of baptism were remission of sins, why would we baptize newborn children who have yet tasted of sins? But the mystery of baptism is not limited to this, it is a promise of future delights; it is the type of future resurrection, a communion with the Master’s passion, a participation in His resurrection, mantle of salvation, a tunic of gladness, a garment of light, or rather it is light itself.” Theodoret of Cyrus

In the later sense, Orthodoxy views baptism of infants in a profoundly different way from the Latin view, which teaches that baptism of infants cleanses them from Original Sin. I am curious. Among Western-non-Latin Christians, is there a belief that Original Sin is cleansed by baptism?


14,066 posted on 05/06/2007 4:56:24 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: wmfights; topcat54; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; Gamecock; ...

How did this excellent thread get side-tracked into yet another wearying defense of dispensationalism and its 19th century errors?


14,260 posted on 05/08/2007 12:36:41 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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