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Thank you for sharing your insights!

To say that God knew us before He created us is to separate God's thoughts and creation, which are one and the same. The Bible doesn't tell us that God creates first by "thinking it out," but instead by Word: "Let there be light." And light is created. God created man after He created light and earth, etc. So, man's existence was not before all ages, but on "day" six, when time and the sun and all other things already existed.

And even then, man was not really created until God breathed the soul through man's nostrils. So, there was a deifnite time, not before all ages, when man was not and his soul was not. The same goes for all of us.

The problem I have with the above is that it makes too many presuppositions:

1. That God’s thoughts and creation are equivalent. The leaning I have in the spirit is that creation is a revelation of God, according to His will – i.e. there is nothing else of which anything can be made from the beginning. Moreover, I see no reason to presume all of His thoughts create – some may destroy – some may do neither.

2. That God did not “think it out” before He said “let there be Light.” Indeed, Isaiah 46:9-10 says He declares the end from the beginning. How is that not “thinking it out?”

3. That God’s breathing (neshama) into Adam’s nostrils in Genesis 2 took place on Day 6 of creation week. There is a timing anamoly between Genesis 1 and 2, e.g. Genesis 2 declares that God created the plants before they were in the earth. Also, the plants are created on Day 3 but there is no sun or moon until Day 4. Likewise, it is a presumption to say that the men created on Day 6 were entirely Adam and Eve and their descendants (Genesis 2).

4. That Genesis 2 and 3 are speaking of events “in” the physical realm. Truly, the leaning I have in the spirit is that Genesis 1-3 speaks to the creation of both the physical and the spiritual and that Adam was created in the spiritual realm (which is not spatially separated from the physical realm) and was banished to mortality at the end of Genesis 3, the countdown for Adamic man beginning in Genesis 4.

4. That God unfolded Creation serially to the conscious within the timeline specified in Creation week. That is to say, like we would do things “in” space/time not knowing the next step until the current step is finished – cause/effect in a directional arrow of time. There is no reason to presume that God does not possess all of His own breath (neshama) in timelessness and dispenses it into Adamic men "in" space/time according to His will, e.g. at conception or through inheritance from Adam.

As always, my concern is “to God be the glory.” I assert that we ought to seek out the Father's revelations – either through Jesus, through the Spirit, through Scriptures or through Creation – and try very hard not to make presumptions where He has not spoken.

My apologies, HarleyD. I should have pinged you to 13926.

[... As always, my concern is “to God be the glory" ..]

And absolutely NONE to some club(church) that men join and elect officers in.. I agree.. All the bright clothing, consecrated vessels, ceremonial hu haw, mood music, passion plays, and dogma and litergy.. are merely playing church like a child..

In one sense we must remain as a child in demeanor but in another sense we must grow in spirit/Spirit into a full grown man..

Therefore, ALL glory to God and NONE to mans playhouses..