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To: Forest Keeper; kosta50; Quix; Kolokotronis; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; kawaii; jo kus
in Catholicism, there is no sense of predestination or election as those words are used in the English

There is a mystery in it, that Divine predestination exists outside of time, and we leave (and use the English language) in a temporal world. This is why, while the election is absolute, it follows, rather than preempts, our free will.

13,875 posted on 05/03/2007 1:53:38 PM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex; Forest Keeper; kosta50; Quix; Kolokotronis; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; kawaii; jo kus

It always interests me how people can say election is a “mystery”. Yet when we say that it is clearly defined, we’re told we’re wrong. Well, if it is such a mystery to you, how do you know we’re wrong? Maybe we’re right. You don’t know since it’s a mystery. We know because to us it isn’t a mystery.


13,883 posted on 05/03/2007 4:02:29 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: annalex; Forest Keeper; HarleyD; 1000 silverlings; blue-duncan
This is why, while the election is absolute, it follows, rather than preempts, our free will.

Which of course, makes no sense. By definition, election is not based on man's choices, but upon God's determinant choice to elect in the first place.

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will" -- Ephesians 1:4-11

"Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee" -- Psalm 65:4

I realize Ephesians is anathema to the erroneous, but much-beloved belief in free will, but that's the Scripture and that's what God is telling all who have ears to hear. We are His because He wants it that way. Election is all of God, and none of us. We cannot earn it, merit it or deserve it.

It is a gift.

Thank you, God. Mercy triumphs over justice.

13,906 posted on 05/03/2007 6:29:43 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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