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To: 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper
The Jews believed, maybe still do, all souls were created before the beginning of the world

Got references to back this up? My contention is biblical: souls are not pre-fabricated.

Here is one that all three of you may ponder: from How are Human Souls Created, a Christian site (with my emphases):

The pre-existence theory is decisively non-Christian, and non-Jewish: it is Gnostic and pagan. Among the more (in)famous Gnostics were Valentius, the almost-pope (c 175 AD), and Origen (c 200 AD). They both taught pre-existence of the souls.

The fact that +Paul teaches is it simply shows what most Christians are not aware of: that, I am sorry to say, many of his statements appear to smack of Gnosticism.

13,844 posted on 05/02/2007 7:53:30 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Forest Keeper; blue-duncan; 1000 silverlings; Alamo-Girl; Quix
Got references to back this up? My contention is biblical: souls are not pre-fabricated.

Hmmmm....I've been rather busy lately but I noticed this conversation and thought it was rather interesting. Actually Dr. E and 1000's remark took me by surprise and I had to look it up. They have a very good point that souls were created before the world. Here is a rather interesting article about the two views:

Creationism or Traducianism? by Dr. Francis Turretin

While I think Dr. Turretin makes many valuable points, I think one of the most interesting verses is:

This would indicate that the spirit is given to us (like Adam) and returns to God. One has to apply this to our Lord Jesus who gave up His Spirit. Did Christ's spirit exist before He was created and, how exactly is Christ's spirit created?

I believe Dr. Turretin brings up a number of very valuable points showing the human soul being created in the beginning, not propagated.

Personally, I don't understand how any of this is "Gnostic". It is a fun term to throw around.

13,890 posted on 05/03/2007 5:01:44 PM PDT by HarleyD
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