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To: Kolokotronis; kosta50; jo kus; annalex
Dear friend ,
As I have said before....
If Mary is the NEW EVE(which you accept),she has to be higher than EVE in EVERY way
That means totally SINLESS.

Marys Fiat “Let it be done to me”

By Mary saying yes...This reverses Eve,s Sin in the perfection of Mary
As St. Irenaeus says, “Being obedient she became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race.” Hence not a few of the early Fathers gladly assert. . .: “The knot of Eve’s disobedience was untied by Mary’s obedience: what the virgin Eve bound through her disbelief, Mary loosened by her faith.” Comparing her with Eve, they call Mary “the Mother of the living” and frequently claim: “Death through Eve, life through Mary.”

The following is an excerpt from http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:gWwECLkKDUwJ:communio-icr.com/articles/PDF/RKereszty.pdf+Jesus,s+fiat&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us

When Mary said yes ,she has implicitly yet wholeheartedly accepted in faith all that has been said to her by the Lord as she accepted the Word made flesh into her womb; moreover, this initial acceptance of the sacrifice of her Son becomes explicit at the foot of the cross. Her consent to the Father in that she allows the self-donation of her Son to the Father to take place in our stead and for our sake is full and wholehearted because she is the Immaculata, the one conceived without original sin and full of grace. Therefore her Yes, her acceptance, is not weakened or divided by any sinful tendency. In this way, Mary who became the Immaculata by being fully redeemed in advance by her Son’s sacrifice, makes the sacrifice of her Son fully her own. And in so far as Mary is the archetype and the beginning of the church, in her the sacrifice of Christ has become the Church’s sacrifice. The patristic phrase “personam ecclesiae gerens,” “in persona Ecclesiae,”denotes a kind of representation that is truly valid only when the role that is played (persona) potrays precisely the subjectivity of the Bride-Church. But how could a sinner be capable of playing this role, which demands spotless love. The disposition he would have to portray would necessarily always be something high above him, an ideal that had not been realized, so that it would not be possible anywhere for the Church to play the role assigned to her in Christ’s sacrifice in keepin with what was expected. This is why the dogma of the Immaculate Conception is a strict postulate of ecclesiology... The assent of the Ekklesia to the sacrifice of the Son must press on until it reaches Mary’s perfect selflessness, so that this agreement may not retain any stain of the egotism that allows Jesus the Paschal Lamb to be slain for one’s own redemption and perfection .
end of excerpt

Just as we see a prefiguring and “types” of Old Testament faithful men Abraham,Moses etc....Culminating to PERFECTION with Jesus, so do we see the prefiguring “types” of faithful women Sarah,Rebecca ,Miram etc.. culminating to PERFECTION with Mary.

This is all I can give you from the Catholic perspective tonight.
I have a busy week ahead as I said in a previous post.
I,ll try and address this further If I can find the time.

I wish you a Blessed evening!

13,717 posted on 04/29/2007 4:40:19 PM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: stfassisi; Kolokotronis; jo kus; annalex
If Mary is the NEW EVE(which you accept),she has to be higher than EVE in EVERY way. That means totally SINLESS

Our Churches agree on that, but, repeating Kolo's key point, we simply don't know when she became κεχαριτωμενη.

As a child, she would not have sinned.

But I will go one step further and personally disagree with your statement, simply because Mary's nature was different from Eve's. Which makes Mary's perfect obedience a greater feat than would have been Eve's perfect obedience!

Adam and Eve would have been immortal had they been obedient; Mary's flesh and therefore Christ's flesh were not. This was certainly not because they sinned, but because Baptism and sinlessness in life cannot change our mortal nature and make us immortal.

So the effects or our ancestor's sin is present in all of us, as mortality. Baptism does not erase that and make us immortal. Being under grace does not change our mortal nature.

Other than that, we are born with no sin of our own, so it is pointless to speak of removing the "original sin" in Mary unless it implies that she was made immortal. My understanding is that some Catholics hold to that belief but the Church remains silent on it.

13,721 posted on 04/29/2007 8:01:30 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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