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To: stfassisi
Sorry ofr a belated reply. I was off the Matrix (FR) for about 48 hours and it was good to see the rest of the world out there. :)

I see that Kolokotronis replied, for which I am very grateful. I couldn't have answer any better.

It was GOD Himself through the Angel Gabriel in Luke 1:28. If GOD said “Hail, full of Grace, the Lord is with thee”, in the same verse, could Mary have been ‘full of grace’ or ‘blessed’ or have the ‘Lord with her’, had she been stained by original sin?

Brother, our Churches have been at this for a long time and this is going to be a tough one. We have learned, despite our few but very profound theological differences, to love one another and in many ways and on many occasions , act as if there has never been a millennial split between us.

I will answer you insofar as my Church teaches it, and has taught forever, and everywhere.

We did not inherit our ancestral parent's 'sin,' but their mortal nature, which is a consequence of their sin. Thus, the only thing we have from the is their mortality, and mortality is not sin, but an effect of sin.

Grace does not make us immortal. The grace we receive at Holy Baptism is adoption into the Church, where we can, in Eucharistic life, return to God and become immortal. Our Lord did not die on the Cross to make us immortal, but to make it possible for us to become immortal. As we sing nowadays "Christ is Risen from the dead, trampling death by death, and to those in graves bestowing life."

The Orthodox teach and have always taught that Mary was made favorable to God as the Annunciation occurred. Immacyulate Conception is meaningless to us, because she was still mortal.

Adam and Eve were created neither mortal nor immortal. I don't think that was the case with the "Second Eve." We believe that she died. The Catholic Curch is silent on that.

One Catholic Freeper once said that she was "baptized" at her own conception. That would not make her a "goddess" any more than it make us, but that would certainly enable her to choose not to sin.

I actually don't have a problem with that, but it is not Scriptural, and there is no consensus patrum on that issue. What evidence do we have that she received grace at her own conception?

We do know that when the Angel addressed her she was full of grace. The rest is speculation.

13,698 posted on 04/28/2007 5:40:55 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
Dear Friend ,Thank you for your response

Here is an excerpt from an article called “The Originality of Original Sin”
http://catholica.pontifications.net/?p=2252
I thought this article was quite good , equally good were some of the response posts (don,t click next after article and scroll down)

Excerpt;
The concern here has been to understand the impact of God’s gratuitous self-communication on the human being. But the Catholic Church can hardly insist that all theology must think in scholastic categories and replicate the theology of Thomas Aquinas or Robert Bellarmine, especially when so many of her own theologians are thinking the faith outside the scholastic box. Consider, for example, the presentation of the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception by Karl Rahner:

The Immaculate Conception means that Mary possessed grace from the beginning. What does it signify, though, to say that someone has sanctifying grace? This dry technical term of theology makes it sound as though some thing were meant. Yet ultimately sanctifying grace and its possession do not signify any thing, not even merely some sublime, mysterious condition of our souls, lying beyond the world of our personal experience and only believed in a remote, theoretical way. Sanctifying grace, fundamentally, means God himself, his communications to created spirits, the gift which is God himself. Grace is light, love, receptive access of a human being’s life as a spiritual person to the infinite expenses of the Godhead. Grace means freedom, strength, a pledge of eternal life, the predominant influence of the Holy Spirit in the depths of the soul, adoptive sonship and an eternal inheritance. (Mary, Mother of the Lord [1963], p. 48)

Like us, Mary is born into a sinful world and must engage in spiritual battle against Satan and the principalities and powers. Like us, Mary is mortal and lives in the knowledge of her mortality. Yet she differs from us in one crucial respect: from the very first moment she came into existence in her mother’s womb she was indwelt by the Holy Spirit and thus enjoyed intimate, enduring communion with God. In this sense, the blessed Virgin Mother was, by the grace of God, free from sin, original and actual. Do Orthodox Christians truly desire to deny this? If the Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is reformulated in positive terms, as the assertion of Mary’s possession of the Holy Spirit from conception, does the doctrine then become acceptable to the East? And if Catholics and Orthodox can agree on the original purity of the Theotokos, do they not in fact essentially agree on original sin?

I,ll post the article on a thread if you wish?
But unfortunately I will not be able to participate much because of a busy upcoming week.

Here is something you may enjoy.

MIRROR OF THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY
by St. Bonaventure
http://www.franciscan-sfo.org/ap/bona/MIRROR.htm

Dear Friend, We are united In the Eucharist The Body of Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ,thus we are one family in Christ! This will ultimately heal any differences.
I truly believe this in my heart.

I wish you and your family a most Blessed Day!

13,714 posted on 04/29/2007 11:24:02 AM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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