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To: stfassisi; kosta50; annalex

Christ is Risen!

“How then can such teaching of St. Thomas be reconciled with the idea that Mary had ever been sullied for an instant with original sin?”

Because, if we are to accept the consensus patrum, from which the Latin Church on occassion has indeed fallen away, there is no such thing as “original sin”. The Panagia of the Immaculate Conception does not respond to God’s uncreated grace in a perfect way; she simply “is” perfect, unlike all the rest of us; she is of an entirely different order of Creation who doesn’t respond to grace at all with no free will, who didn’t need a Savior; not really a human being at all and that, +SF, does violence to the Christology of The Church.

Let me ask you this, +SF. If Panagia was, from the very moment of her Conception, freed from the distortions of the sin of Adam (or, if you will, Original Sin), why did she sorrow, why did she die in the flesh? Or do you believe she never died in the flesh and will never die in the flesh? If you believe she never died in the flesh, was the Mother of our God not human? If she was not human, should she be worshipped instead of simply venerated; was she a goddess or a demi-goddess of some sort?

+SF, the simple point is that the Roman Church has dogmatized the Immaculate Conception because it had to so long as it sticks with the non-Patristic notion of Original Sin. Take away that idea, and there is simply no need for the dogma and absolutely no lessening of devotion to the Mother of God except perhaps for the hysteria caused by certain stains and half eaten cheese sandwiches.

“BTW,The link you provided did not work.”

I noticed that. I think the subscripts were wiped out by the line under the link. Go to the site and type Akathist into the little search box on the right.


13,673 posted on 04/28/2007 4:44:51 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis
You seem to suggest that being born without original sin leeds to loss of free will and being not human?

Adam and Eve were born without original sin and they had free will.

Mary had a choice to accept being the Mother of God.She used her free will to accept.
Love can NOT force itself,it has to be accepted.

Of course Mary was fully human,she was also fully obedient therefore fully sinlesss-the “NEW EVE”

Dear friend,
I see no point in arguing this.

13,674 posted on 04/28/2007 5:01:26 AM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: Kolokotronis; stfassisi; kosta50
the non-Patristic notion of Original Sin

It is rather clear, is it not, that Romans 5 speaks of some sin, connects it to Adam, and attaches it to all or nearly all regardless of their personal behavior? I cannot shake the impression that all the Orthodox Church is rejecting is the term, while accepting the essence.

13,696 posted on 04/28/2007 5:32:01 PM PDT by annalex
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