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To: stfassisi; kosta50

At the risk of answering for Kosta, you should understand that the entire concept of “Original Sin” and thus, necessarily, the “Immaculate Conception” are not at all within the consensus Patrum and are and have been consistently rejected by the Christian East. As you of course know, even Aquinas himself rejected the Immaculate Conception. Blessed Augustine didn’t understand Greek and thus, rather than having the benefit of the writings of the earlier Fathers, it seems he drew on his Manichean youth for many of his notions, including Original Sin. It is quite correct to say that the Most Holy Theotokos was conceived without Original Sin. Neither were any of us. She was however fully human and thus born subject to the distortions wrought in human nature by the Sin of Adam. To say otherwise makes her something other than human (a “goddess” perhaps?)and that notion would have, I am sure you will agree, a rather profound effect on our Christology.

What Kosta has written is patristic. What you have advanced is not.


13,661 posted on 04/27/2007 3:31:22 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Kolokotronis
You said...

“”At the risk of answering for Kosta, you should understand that the entire concept of “Original Sin” and thus, necessarily, the “Immaculate Conception” are not at all within the consensus Patrum and are and have been consistently rejected by the Christian East. As you of course know, even Aquinas himself rejected the Immaculate Conception””

Dear friend, what was written in my post are words that come from from Saint Thomas Aquinas himself regarding Mary

Why do you think Mary is lesser then Eve? (Born without Original sin)Jesus(God) is perfect. How can He have come into the world from someone with the stain of sin?
Mary is the New Eve, she fulfills God,s perfect plan that was lost by Eve,s sin.
This does not make her a God . It personifies and fulfills God,s original plan for mankind.

Even Scripture says that GOD will not join Himself with anything defiled.

Some examples.....

Because into a soul that plots evil wisdom enters not, nor dwells she in a body under debt of sin. For the holy spirit of discipline flees deceit and withdraws from senseless counsels; and when injustice occurs it is rebuked
Wis 1:4-5,

Lo, the hand of the LORD is not too short to save, nor his ear too dull to hear.
Rather, it is your crimes that separate you from your God, It is your sins that make him hide his face so that he will not hear you.
For your hands are stained with blood, your fingers with guilt; Your lips speak falsehood, and your tongue utters deceit.
No one brings suit justly, no one pleads truthfully; They trust in emptiness and tell
lies; they conceive mischief and bring forth malice
Isa 59:1-4,

Dear friend, I admire the special position given to Mary by the Orthodox.
I find it strange why Orthodox do not seem to accept Mary as the New Eve.

13,663 posted on 04/27/2007 7:08:09 PM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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