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To: wagglebee; Salvation
So why isn't [Sola Scriptura] in the Bible. Why didn't any of the early Church fathers write about it, or even later with Augustine and Aquinas.

But it is in the Bible, in several places. The most often source quoted is 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Of course, Catholics and followers of Sola Scriptura disagree on the interpretation of that passage, and all others in which we assert the doctrine.

The fact is that Martin Luther invented it in the early 16th Century as a reason to leave the Church. Even he didn't pretend to have Biblical justification of it.

One fundamental truth of Sola Scriptura is that the Bible is inerrant and cannot contradict itself, nor can Tradition contradict the Bible. Luther recognized that the RCC had fully broken away from this idea. All Luther did was formalize an idea that was already true.

Church Fathers must have written about the fundamental ideas just described. I doubt that your Tradition says it is fine to contradict the Bible. Luther and the Reformers saw that the RCC had long been doing this, and in fact continue to do so to this day. Sola Scriptura does not say all Tradition is wrong, it says anything that contradicts the Bible is wrong.

As has been demonstrated ad nauseum on this and other threads, no Marian beliefs contradict the Bible as long as one is open-minded enough to listen to the Church's theology behind these beliefs.

The Reformers believe that the level of open mind you are speaking of SO defies logic and reason that the Marian beliefs, and other dogma and doctrine of the RCC actually do contradict the Bible.

1,366 posted on 12/13/2006 9:24:31 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper
The most often source quoted is 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

I'm having a hard time believing that you are actually appealing to this passage to support 'sola scriptura' when just a few weeks ago we should you very clearly that the verse does not in any way teach 'sola scriptura'. It tells us that the Scripture is useful for x, so that [hina] the man of God may be equipped for every good work. It does not say that Scripture alone is sufficient for bringing a man to that state. To read it that way is to take out of it what it does not say, what *no* early church fathers took it to say, what no bishops took it to say, what no early commentators took it to say, for 1500 years!! Let's stop pretending that 2 Tim 3:16 teaches 'sola scriptura'; it doesn't.

One fundamental truth of Sola Scriptura is that the Bible is inerrant and cannot contradict itself, nor can Tradition contradict the Bible. Luther recognized that the RCC had fully broken away from this idea.

The Catholic Church has never claimed that Tradition can contradict the Bible. You're not going to get away with strawmen here.

Luther and the Reformers saw that the RCC had long been doing this, and in fact continue to do so to this day. Sola Scriptura does not say all Tradition is wrong, it says anything that contradicts the Bible is wrong.

"Contradicts the Bible" really means "Contradicts [our private interpretation of] the Bible".

The Reformers believe that the level of open mind you are speaking of SO defies logic and reason that the Marian beliefs, and other dogma and doctrine of the RCC actually do contradict the Bible.

No degree of open-mindedness can make x contradict y. If x contradicts y, then no matter how close-minded one is, x still contradicts y. And if x does not contradict y, then no degree of open-mindedness can make x contradict y. Therefore, no degree of open-mindedness makes any of the Catholic doctrines about Mary contradict the Bible.

-A8

1,370 posted on 12/13/2006 10:16:23 PM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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