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To: blue-duncan
Dear friend, you said.....
“”If the cup after blessing becomes the blood of Jesus, why does He say He will drink it again with the disciples in the Kingdom? Why does He give them the bread and cup before He dies if it becomes His broken body and shed blood and yet that has not happened? Why does He say do this in remembrance of me rather than you must do it for your salvation? Why does the eating of the bread and drinking the cup in the presence of Jesus have absolutely no spiritual effect on the disciples immediately after, vis, the squabble over authority, Peter’s braggadocio, Judas’ betrayal, and ultimately all of the disciples abandoning and even sleeping in His hour of need? You see, words matter; remembrance is memorial, not present action.””

Jesus Presence in the Eucharist is His Glorious state AFTER the Resurrection.
I think where you are having difficulty is understanding where Jesus prefigures(the dividing of the loaves and fish and the washing of the feet where Jesus shows communion) and institutes the Eucharist(in the Upper room).
Also the heavenly Liturgy is the same in heaven as it is on earth(Mass). “Give us the day our daily bread ON EARTH as it is in HEAVEN”
I wish that every Catholic would understand just how Glorious Mass really is-Heaven comes to earth!Its truly Awesome!
Sadly,I missed all this when I was a Protestant.

The Early Church Fathers “All of them” actually took the real presence for granted,they had great faith even until death.

Perhaps this will help....
You may have noticed that Holy Scripture has many verses regarding the body. What may not be so apparent to you is that many of those verses are prefigurements, or types of the soul.
There are, in fact, deeper meanings of Holy Scripture which must be discerned.

“The LORD said to Moses, “This is the law for the victim of leprosy at the time of his purification. He shall be brought to the priest, who is to go outside the camp to examine him. If the priest finds that the sore of leprosy has healed in the leper, he shall order the man who is to be purified, to get two live, clean birds, as well as some cedar wood, scarlet yarn, and hyssop. The priest shall then order him to slay one of the birds over an earthen vessel with spring water in it. Taking the living bird with the cedar wood, the scarlet yarn and the hyssop, the priest shall dip them all in the blood of the bird that was slain over the spring water, and then sprinkle seven times the man to be purified from his leprosy. When he has thus purified him, he shall let the living bird fly away over the countryside.”
Leviticus 14:1-7
Notice who the instrument of healing of the body is in this verse. It is not a physician but a priest.
Is the primary concern for the priest the preservation of the body or of the salvation of the soul?
These and other verses literally are about healing of the body, but a deeper meaning is that they are types of healing of the spiritual soul, as we shall see in the New Testament.

“When he came down from the mountain, great crowds followed him; and behold, a leper came to him and knelt before him, saying, “Lord, if you will, you can make me clean.” And he stretched out his hand and touched him, saying, “I will; be clean.” And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. And Jesus said to him, “See that you say nothing to any one; but go, show yourself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a proof to the people.”
Matthew 8:2-4
This was a cleansing and healing of the body. Why then did Jesus tell the cleansed leper to show himself to the priest and not to a physician?

Read John Chapter 6. Notice in verses 1-15 there is the story of the multiplication of the loaves and fishes by Jesus, and the feeding of five thousand. This part is about feeding the body which has to be nourished every day. Verses 16-21 is about Jesus walking upon the water, proving that He is GOD. Starting in verse 22 all the way to the end of the chapter, we see the antitype of the type presented to us in the first 15 verses. The key is verse 27,
“Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of man will give to you; for on him has God the Father set his seal.”
John 6:27
Did Jesus say the “symbol” of the food which endures to eternal life?

What is the “food which perishes”?
It is the food which sustains the body until it dies.
It is the loaves and fishes, the “bread” of bodily life of verses 1-15.
Without the “food which perishes”, the body soon perishes.

“I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.”
John 6:48
The “manna in the wilderness” was merely a type or a symbol of what was to come in the New Testament. As you can readily see, the manna type preserved the body for a period of time, but had no effect on the spiritual soul. Remember one of the basic rules of typology is:
The New Testament reality is far superior to the Old Testament type.

So now we must look to this far superior reality of the New Testament.

What is the “food which endures to eternal life”?
Jesus told us what it is,
“This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” So they said to him, “Then what sign do you do, that we may see, and believe you? What work do you perform? Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’” Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven; my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is that which comes down from heaven, and gives life to the world.” They said to him, “Lord, give us this bread always.” Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to me shall not hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.”
John 6:29-35

And yet again Jesus told us what it is,
“This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
John 6:48-51
Did Jesus say it is a symbol of His flesh?

“And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”
Luke 22:19
Did Jesus say it is a symbol of His body? Not that I can find anywhere in Scripture.

“For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.”
1Corinthians 11:26
This verse clearly said we are to proclaim the Lords death often and continue until He comes again.
How often are we to do this in remembrance of Him?

Never fear for Holy Scripture tells us.

“For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city which is to come. Through him then let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name.” Hebrews 13:14-15

And:
“And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they partook of food with glad and generous hearts.”
Acts 2:46

“And every day in the temple and at home they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ.”
Acts 5:42

And:
“For from the rising of the sun, even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation, for my name is great among the Gentiles, says the LORD of hosts.”
Malachi 1:11

“Give us this day our daily bread.”
Matthew 6:11
This is from the prayer that Jesus taught us, the “Our Father”.
It means in totality, bread as food for our bodies and spiritual bread as food for our souls.

We are to continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God.
Every day in every place a clean oblation is offered.
What, or who, is the sacrifice and what is a clean oblation?
It is an offering of praise to GOD, in the Holy Eucharist, the Body, and the Precious Blood of Christ. The Catholic Church offers the sacrifice of praise to GOD all over the world, every day in the Mass.
It has replaced the bloody animal sacrifices of the Old Testament.
That is why it is called a clean oblation.
In Matthew 26:26, didn’t Jesus take bread and say, “Take and eat; this is my body”?
And did he not beseech us to say in the Lords Prayer:
“Give us this day out daily bread”, (both physical for the body, and spiritual for the soul).
Matthew 6:11
How many non-Catholic ecclesial communities offer daily sacrifice, a clean oblation, as is clearly commanded for us to do by Holy Scripture? How many do not even offer sacrifice?

“Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened.
For Christ, our paschal lamb, has been sacrificed.”
1Corinthians 5:7

“Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.”
Ephesians 5:1-2

“I have received full payment, and more; I am filled, having received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent, a fragrant offering, a sacrifice acceptable and pleasing to God.”
Philippians 4:18

Jesus Christ is the “food” which sustains the spiritual soul which lives forever. He is the “bread come down from heaven” as we saw in John chapter six.
Can a mere “symbol” sustain the spiritual soul to eternal life?
Since the manna was the type or symbol of the New Testament reality, that question can be answered by another basic rule of typology:

“An Old Testament type (symbol) never points to a New Testament symbol, but to a reality.”

So obviously the “food which endures to eternal life” cannot be a symbol, but a New Testament reality. It also cannot be a symbol, for another reason. It would violate yet a second basic rule of typology which we have previously discussed:

“The New Testament reality is far superior to the Old Testament type.”

So does this mean that Christ is sacrificed over and over again in the Eucharistic Celebration?

Again, what does Holy Scripture say?

“For Christ also died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;”
1Peter 3:18

“The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office; but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues for ever. Consequently he is able for all time to save those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them. For it was fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, blameless, unstained, separated from sinners, exalted above the heavens. He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people; he did this once for all when he offered up himself.”
Hebrews 7:23-27

Christ was sacrificed only once and for all time. He is both the High Priest and the victim.

Catechism of the Catholic Church # 1366
“The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit: (Christ), our Lord and God, was once and for all to offer himself to God the Father by his death on the altar of the cross, to accomplish there an everlasting redemption. But because his priesthood was not to end with his death, at the Last Supper ‘on the night when he was betrayed,’ (he wanted) to leave to his beloved spouse the Church a visible sacrifice (as the nature of man demands) by which the bloody sacrifice which he was to accomplish once for all on the cross would be re-presented, its memory perpetuated until the end of the world, and its salutary power be applied to the forgiveness of the sins we daily commit.
(Council of Trent (1562): DS 1740; cf. 1 Cor 11:23; Heb 7:24,27.)”

We must remember that GOD is outside of time. Time is a measure of change for the things He has created. Since He never changes, He Himself is outside of time.
Consequently, everything from creation, and before, and for all eternity is now with GOD, including the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. It is a continuous, never ending sacrifice.
How can something that never ends be repeated?

God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.”
And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”
Exodus 3:14

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
John 8:58

“And getting into a boat he crossed over and came to his own city. And behold, they brought to him a paralytic, lying on his bed; and when Jesus saw their faith he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven.” And behold, some of the scribes said to themselves, “This man is blaspheming.” But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, “Why do you think evil in your hearts? For which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise and walk’? But that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he then said to the paralytic—”Rise, take up your bed and go home.” And he rose and went home. When the crowds saw it, they were afraid, and they glorified God, who had given such authority to men.”
Matthew 9:1-8

These classic verses graphically show the connection between healing of the body and healing of the soul. Jesus first cleansed the paralytic’s soul, and then He cleansed his body. Pay especial attention to the last line. To whom was authority given? Notice that the very last word in the verses is plural.

In summation:
1. The body needs physical food in order to survive or else it will die.
2. The spiritual soul needs spiritual food in order to avoid spiritual death, the separation from GOD.
3. Spiritual food cannot be a symbolic gesture, simply because a mere symbol could not possibly feed the spiritual soul. Spiritual food is as much a reality as is physical food. It is the antitype of its Old Testament type of the manna in the desert. Recall that an O.T. type never points to a N.T. symbol.
4. Scripture tells us that there will be offered sacrifice every day in every place, a clean oblation.
How can symbolism of a sacrifice be a sacrifice in itself?
5. The bread come down from heaven, Jesus Christ, is that clean oblation, His sacrifice on the cross.
6. Jesus Christ was sacrificed once on the cross for all eternity.
7. Jesus Christ is both the High Priest and the victim, the Paschal Lamb of sacrifice.
8. Since He is High Priest forever (Heb 7:17), He is also the sacrificial Lamb forever (Rev 5:13-14).
9. Since GOD is outside of time, everything is now with Him. That one sacrifice at Calvary, which is always now for GOD, is made present for us during the Eucharistic celebration of the Mass.
10. The Mass is a re-presentation of that one sacrifice. We are re-presented at Calvary.

The Book of Revelation and the Holy Mass
from....
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/the_eucharist.html#eucharist-IIf
The Book of Revelation shows us glimpses of the heavenly liturgy – Jesus Christ’s once and for all sacrifice eternally present in heaven. This is why the Church has always incorporated the elements that John saw in the heavenly liturgy into her earthly liturgy, for they are one and the same liturgical action of Jesus Christ our High Priest.

Rev. 1:6, 20:6 - heaven’s identification of the priesthood of the faithful is the same as the Church’s identification on earth.

Rev. 1:10 - John witnesses the heavenly liturgy on Sunday, the Lord’s day, which is a Catholic holy day of obligation for attending Mass on earth.

Rev. 1:12, 2:5 - there are lampstands or Menorahs in heaven. These have always been used in the Holy Mass of the Church on earth.

Rev. 1:13 - Jesus is clothed as High Priest. Our priests also clothe themselves as “alter Christuses” (other Christs) in offering His sacrifice in the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 1:13, 4:4, 6:11, 7:9, 15:6, 19:13-14 - priests wear special vestments in heaven. Our priests also wear special vestments in celebrating the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 2:5,16,21; 3:3; 16:11 - there is a penitential rite in heaven which is also part of the liturgy of the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 2:17 - there is manna in heaven given to the faithful. This is the same as the Eucharistic manna given to the faithful at the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 4:4, 5:14; 11:16, 14:3, 19:4 - there are priests (”presbyteroi”) in heaven. Priests offer sacrifice. Our earthly priests participate with the heavenly priests in offering Jesus’ eternal sacrifice in the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 4:8 - heaven’s liturgical chant “Holy, Holy, Holy” is the same that is used in the liturgy of the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 4:8-11, 5:9-14, 7:10-12, 18:1-8 - the various antiphonal chants in the heavenly liturgy are similar to those used at the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 5:1 - there is a book or scroll of God’s word in heaven. This is reflected in the Liturgy of the Word at the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 5:6 and throughout - heaven’s description of Jesus as the “Lamb” is the same as the description of Jesus as the Lamb of God in the Eucharistic liturgy of the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 5:8, 6:9-11, 8:3-4 - heaven’s emphasis on the intercession of the saints is the same as the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 5:8, 8:3-4 - there is incense in heaven which has always been part of the liturgy of the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 5:14; 7:12; 19:4 - heaven’s concluding liturgical prayer “Amen” is the same as is used at the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 6:9 - the martyrs who are seen under the heavenly altar is similar to the Church’s tradition of keeping relics of saints under the earthly altars.

Rev. 7:3, 14:1, 22:4 - there is the sign of the cross (”tau”) in heaven. This sign is used during the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 7:9; 14:6 - the catholicity or universality of heaven as God’s family is the essence of the Catholic faith on earth.

Rev. 8:1 - the silent contemplation in heaven is similar to our silent contemplation at the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 8:3, 11:1, 14:18, 16:7 - there is an altar in heaven. But no altar is needed unless a sacrifice is being offered in heaven. This is the same sacrifice that is offered on the altars used in the Holy Masses on earth.

Rev. 11:12 - the phrase “come up here” is similar to the priest’s charge to “lift up your hearts” at the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 12:1-6, 13-17 - heaven’s emphasis on the Blessed Virgin Mary is the same as the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 12:7 - heaven’s emphasis on the Archangel Michael’s intercession is the same as the concluding prayers at the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 14:4 - there are consecrated celibates in heaven, as there are with our Catholic priests and religious on earth.

Rev. 15:7, 16:1-4,8,10,12,17; 21:9 - there are chalices (or bowls) in the heavenly liturgy. This is like the chalices used to offer Christ’s sacrifice in the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 15:3-4 - there is the recitation of the “Gloria” in heaven. This is also recited at the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 15:5 - there is a tent or tabernacle in heaven. Tabernacles are used to store the Eucharist at the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 17, 19:9 - the consummation of the Lamb at heaven’s marriage supper is the same as the Lamb’s supper in the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 19:1,3,4,6 - there is the recitation of the “Alleluia” in heaven. This is also recited at the Holy Mass on earth.

Time for work
I wish you a Blessed Day!

13,649 posted on 04/27/2007 6:17:44 AM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: blue-duncan

Correction
“Thy will be done in EARTH as it is in Heaven”

OOPS,Sorry about that


13,652 posted on 04/27/2007 6:36:42 AM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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