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To: annalex; DungeonMaster; Blogger
"...and no you were not told to bind and loose, unless you are a bishop and heir of the Apostles, who were given the authority directly."

The problem with this interpretation is it is inconsistent with how the Apostles, acting as missionaries, helped in setting up churches. James, the brother of Jesus, is the only Apostle we see acting as a Bishop residing in Jerusalem exclusively and even then decisions were made in a congregational/collegial manner.

Acts 15:6 "Now the apostles and elders came together to consider the matter."

1,330 posted on 12/13/2006 11:35:07 AM PST by wmfights (Romans 8:37-39)
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To: wmfights; annalex
18 “Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. 19 “Again I say to you that if two of you agree on earth concerning anything that they ask, it will be done for them by My Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.”

This is definitely not excluded to "bishops". It doesn't even make sense to try to parse this out as part applying to bishops only.

1,331 posted on 12/13/2006 11:47:18 AM PST by DungeonMaster (Rudy 08...If ya can't beat em, join em.)
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To: wmfights

WmFights, it goes even further than the verse you quoted. Look who was there. It wasn't just apostles and elders....
In Act 15 here are the participants mentioned in order:
The Apostles
- Peter (speaking, by the way of how God gave the Gentiles the Holy Ghost and ending: 11But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.)
- Paul
- James
The Elders
Barnabus
All the MULTITUDE
Simeon? (doesn't have to be there, but it appears he is)
The whole church

After this cast of characters discussed the matter, the decision was made to send out missionaries (Paul and Barnabus) to the Gentiles. Who was the decision made by? Peter? He was a participant. All of the Apostles? Not alone. The College of Cardinals? No. The Elders? No. But, the Apostles, the Elders AND THE WHOLE CHURCH. The same then write a letter. Not exactly the system that would be after the centralized organization took control.


1,337 posted on 12/13/2006 4:26:18 PM PST by Blogger
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To: wmfights; DungeonMaster; Blogger
James, the brother of Jesus, is the only Apostle we see acting as a Bishop

We see St. James presiding in a local council, but we see St. Paul and St. Timothy describes as functioning bishops who ordain others.

All: I'll get back for the rest tomorrow. Good night.

1,349 posted on 12/13/2006 6:35:27 PM PST by annalex
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To: wmfights; DungeonMaster; Blogger
The actual Greek in Acts 15:6 is oi "apostoloi kai oi presbyteroi", the apostles and the priests.

decisions were made in a congregational/collegial manner.

Collegial, not "congregational" if by that you mean participation of laymen. So are nearly all decisions of the Church today. This doesn't mean there is no hierarchy though.

1,416 posted on 12/14/2006 6:33:20 PM PST by annalex
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